23rd Aug 2010, 14:03
permalink Post: 81
On the ITVV Concorde DVD the Captain explains that during the cruise climb at mach 2 the auto throttles were armed and would be used as required. Then during descent the throttles were gradually pulled back whilst the autopilot was given an IAS of I think 350 knots. Therefore the plane would have to descend to maintain that speed. He explained that the power settings were chosen to ensure that there was sufficent cooling etc.
My query is if an autoland was to be undertaken was the auto throttle system able to maintain the required landing speed or would the pilot have to manage the throttles? I guess that decreasing or increasing the pitch to control speed when on the glide slope would not be a good idea.
Thanks again
Nick
My query is if an autoland was to be undertaken was the auto throttle system able to maintain the required landing speed or would the pilot have to manage the throttles? I guess that decreasing or increasing the pitch to control speed when on the glide slope would not be a good idea.
Thanks again
Nick
24th Aug 2010, 10:21
permalink Post: 89
I'm just an interested non-pilot bystander, & hope it's OK to post here.
Thank you all for this truly fascinating information. I've a question arising from watching the ITVV DVDs:
Having two pilots obviously gives some options if one becomes ill or incapacitated, but how were things handled if the FE became unable to perform his duties? Did the FO take over, & how familiar were the pilots with the FE's duties - could either pilot do the FE's job in full, or was it limited to some subset such as required for a diversion/landing etc. I assume this kind of thing was practised in the simulator regularly?
I note (unless I've misunderstood) that there was some presetting of the load limit fuel transfer system, so that the pilots could initiate a CofG movement for descent if required.
Thanks!
Thank you all for this truly fascinating information. I've a question arising from watching the ITVV DVDs:
Having two pilots obviously gives some options if one becomes ill or incapacitated, but how were things handled if the FE became unable to perform his duties? Did the FO take over, & how familiar were the pilots with the FE's duties - could either pilot do the FE's job in full, or was it limited to some subset such as required for a diversion/landing etc. I assume this kind of thing was practised in the simulator regularly?
I note (unless I've misunderstood) that there was some presetting of the load limit fuel transfer system, so that the pilots could initiate a CofG movement for descent if required.
Thanks!
25th Aug 2010, 14:39
permalink Post: 111
I have been been on PPRuNe for 10 years now, and this is one of the most fascinating threads I've ever read. Some of the quotes give me goosebumps:
And to think that she was designed in the 1960s by men with slide rules and drawing boards. How fitting that the most sophisticated airliner ever built was also by far and away the most beautiful.
Some years ago I had the privilege of meeting Capt. David Rowland (he of the ITVV video fame) at a GAPAN aptitude test day, and it is one of my cherished memories. I recall we spent about 30 seconds discussing my test results, and the remaining 10 minutes chatting about Concorde . . .
Please keep the memories coming guys \x96 as a humble Dash 8 driver, I will always be in awe of the technological marvel which was Concorde.
Quote:
| this fuel system really was a study in elegance. |
Quote:
| On test flights however, the aircraft would routinely zoom climb to FL 630 . . . . . . the highest recorded Concorde altitude was on one of the French development aircraft, which achieved 68,000'. |
Quote:
| The powerplant was as you say truly amazing. We had an, as yet, unmatched engine/intake combination, with a variable primary and secondary nozzles. The variable intake allowed supersonic operation with maximum pressure recovery, minimum aerodynamic drag, as well as extreme operational stability. (Extreme temperature shears, that would have caused surge/unstarts in military installations) were dealt with as a total non event). It's astonishing to believe, but at Mach 2 cruise, the intake provided approximately 63% of the powerplant thrust. It was controlled by the world's first airborne digital control system. |
Quote:
| We never had a case of lost pressurisation, ever. |
Quote:
| the aircraft handled beautifully through an 1100kt speed range. |
Some years ago I had the privilege of meeting Capt. David Rowland (he of the ITVV video fame) at a GAPAN aptitude test day, and it is one of my cherished memories. I recall we spent about 30 seconds discussing my test results, and the remaining 10 minutes chatting about Concorde . . .
Please keep the memories coming guys \x96 as a humble Dash 8 driver, I will always be in awe of the technological marvel which was Concorde.
25th Aug 2010, 18:39
permalink Post: 115
Thanks M2dude and all other aviation professionals for making us "normal" posters so welcome on this thread.
Being a child of the sixties I clearly remember the feeling that we were at the dawn of a new technological age and Concorde and the Apollo project were the outstanding examples of what was possible. Great times.
Am not a computer expert but I have always wondered if the limitations of the 60's hardware meant that the software had to be more elegantly desgined than now?
Having watched the ITVV Concorde DVD, Captain David Rowlands and SEO Roger Bricknell come over as very knowlegable and friendly people. I hope they are both enjoying their retirement.
Thanks again
Nick
Being a child of the sixties I clearly remember the feeling that we were at the dawn of a new technological age and Concorde and the Apollo project were the outstanding examples of what was possible. Great times.
Am not a computer expert but I have always wondered if the limitations of the 60's hardware meant that the software had to be more elegantly desgined than now?
Having watched the ITVV Concorde DVD, Captain David Rowlands and SEO Roger Bricknell come over as very knowlegable and friendly people. I hope they are both enjoying their retirement.
Thanks again
Nick
29th Aug 2010, 23:59
permalink Post: 155
Thanks for your comment M2dude, am just SLF with an interest in design, due to being a member of the profession accused by the Prince of Wales "of doing more damage to this country than the Luftwaffe"!
This may seem a trival question but on the ITVV video Capt Rowlands is checking the pitch trim and the sound made is as he says "rather like a french bicycle bell" and he suggests that it may indeed be made by such a bell. I rather like that idea; but was it so?
I remember in the early eighties loading programmes into my ZX81 using cassettes; and not having much success! Mind you a cassette tape would be far better than an 8 track as an 8 track would keep reloading the route and you would end up flying in circles!
There is a serious point here and that is if you are designing such a complex machine as Concorde, if you can use proven technology in some areas then do so. It appears that all the people involved did so and didn't waste time on "reinventing the wheel" or complicating things just for the sake of it. Good design is about finding the most appropiate solution and Concorde is a fine example of that.
Once again thanks
Nick
This may seem a trival question but on the ITVV video Capt Rowlands is checking the pitch trim and the sound made is as he says "rather like a french bicycle bell" and he suggests that it may indeed be made by such a bell. I rather like that idea; but was it so?
I remember in the early eighties loading programmes into my ZX81 using cassettes; and not having much success! Mind you a cassette tape would be far better than an 8 track as an 8 track would keep reloading the route and you would end up flying in circles!
There is a serious point here and that is if you are designing such a complex machine as Concorde, if you can use proven technology in some areas then do so. It appears that all the people involved did so and didn't waste time on "reinventing the wheel" or complicating things just for the sake of it. Good design is about finding the most appropiate solution and Concorde is a fine example of that.
Once again thanks
Nick
24th Sep 2010, 15:51
permalink Post: 464
i have managed to borrow the dvd`s for the BA concorde by ITVV (300 minutes worth) - and can totally recommend them if you want to see how the workforce `up front` do ther job within concorde - Captain Dave Rowlands , First Officer Les Brodey and FLight EngineerRoger Bricknell.
guided tour of concorde , and i did like the segments on just how much temperature effected performance - and the section (i think 20 minutes worth) explaining just how important the fuel system played in the flight `56.5 going aft` i do understand now
guided tour of concorde , and i did like the segments on just how much temperature effected performance - and the section (i think 20 minutes worth) explaining just how important the fuel system played in the flight `56.5 going aft` i do understand now
7th Nov 2010, 11:19
permalink Post: 678
Does anyone know what happened to the pilots that featured on the ITVV Concorde video?
There's a preview here (I think it only lasts for this Sunday though)
ITVV British Airways Concorde Preview :: ITVV
There's a preview here (I think it only lasts for this Sunday though)
ITVV British Airways Concorde Preview :: ITVV
25th Nov 2010, 18:00
permalink Post: 774
Reading this thread has encouraged me to rewatch my Concorde ITVV DVD. During one of the checklists the term TLA is read out as part of the checklist and the reply was something like "13 degrees set"
Am I right in assuming that TLA stands for throttle lever angle? and if so did setting the throttles to a certain angle then give a known thrust setting?
Regards
Nick
Am I right in assuming that TLA stands for throttle lever angle? and if so did setting the throttles to a certain angle then give a known thrust setting?
Regards
Nick
26th Nov 2010, 23:52
permalink Post: 789
I have yet another question!
This one concerns the FE and his Sharp pocket computer. On the ITVV DVD the FE explains that he takes a set of engine readings and then enters them into the pocket computer to arrive at an engine trend which he then plots onto a graph. I noticed that the graph was titled "EGT trend".
As there are EGT gauges on the front panel, I was wondering why readings taken directly from the gauges were not used or does the computer average out the EGT for the four engines? Are the EGT readings taken over a standard period of time or for different phases of flight etc?
Looking at the readings it appeared that he had recorded a lot more readings than just the EGT. He also added that the readings were handed to the ground engineers at the end of each flight.
It would be interesting to know what readings were recorded and the significance of them to the ground engineers. Also could the FE deduce anything form the EGT trend graph?
Regards
Nick
This one concerns the FE and his Sharp pocket computer. On the ITVV DVD the FE explains that he takes a set of engine readings and then enters them into the pocket computer to arrive at an engine trend which he then plots onto a graph. I noticed that the graph was titled "EGT trend".
As there are EGT gauges on the front panel, I was wondering why readings taken directly from the gauges were not used or does the computer average out the EGT for the four engines? Are the EGT readings taken over a standard period of time or for different phases of flight etc?
Looking at the readings it appeared that he had recorded a lot more readings than just the EGT. He also added that the readings were handed to the ground engineers at the end of each flight.
It would be interesting to know what readings were recorded and the significance of them to the ground engineers. Also could the FE deduce anything form the EGT trend graph?
Regards
Nick
28th Jan 2011, 20:39
permalink Post: 1146
It seems to have gone a bit quiet on here, so here's another question from an ignorant bystander. Having just got hold of the ITVV DVD, I noticed reference during the FE's walk-round to areas of unpainted aluminium below the front door referred to as Static Ports. What are these?
30th Jan 2011, 22:39
permalink Post: 1165
Reverse buckets
Hi,
I've been following this thread with great interest. I hope some of you silver haired Captains (yes, with a capital C) can answer a question that has been bugging my mind for the last few days.
After watching the ITVV Concorde video it is apparant that you check the Reversers and air shut off valve. How do you do this test and what are you looking for?
I've been trying to get it to work in the FLS ConcordeX , but so far without luck. The buckets move accordingly in the air and when selecting reverse. And they say it's simulated as well.
Thanks,
Martin
I've been following this thread with great interest. I hope some of you silver haired Captains (yes, with a capital C) can answer a question that has been bugging my mind for the last few days.
After watching the ITVV Concorde video it is apparant that you check the Reversers and air shut off valve. How do you do this test and what are you looking for?
I've been trying to get it to work in the FLS ConcordeX , but so far without luck. The buckets move accordingly in the air and when selecting reverse. And they say it's simulated as well.
Thanks,
Martin
30th Oct 2011, 22:32
permalink Post: 1469
Video
Christaan
That video company is ITVV - Intelligent Television and Video. DVD copies are still around on Ebay. 300 minutes of pure delight.
That video company is ITVV - Intelligent Television and Video. DVD copies are still around on Ebay. 300 minutes of pure delight.
30th Oct 2011, 22:45
permalink Post: 1470
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by
johnjosh43
Christaan
That video company is ITVV - Intelligent Television and Video. DVD copies are still around on Ebay. 300 minutes of pure delight. |
I've got the two VHS tapes rather than the DVDs.
But "pure delight".... yes.
If you're a Concorde 'enthusiast', get your hands on a copy. You won't regret it.
CJ
8th Dec 2011, 15:57
permalink Post: 1516
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by
johnjosh43
Christaan
That video company is ITVV - Intelligent Television and Video. DVD copies are still around on Ebay. 300 minutes of pure delight. |
13th Dec 2011, 00:13
permalink Post: 1524
Performance Question
Could I ask a performance question of you folks?
I was watching the ITVV Concorde program the other day and a couple of things really stood out. The noise abatement take off from JFK looked pretty alarming from a climb rate point of view, looked like the aircraft tottered over the coastline with a pretty low rate of climb compared to the subsonic stuff. That being said she was supersonic 12 minutes after the thrust levers were advanced so she could certainly pick up her heels.
So the question is, if you were operating the aircraft out of somewhere with no climb or noise abatement restrictions (BGI?) on an average day with make take off weight what would be the typical time to M1? Course the 7 year old in me also want to know what the fastest time was that you saw on a revenue trip.
I was watching the ITVV Concorde program the other day and a couple of things really stood out. The noise abatement take off from JFK looked pretty alarming from a climb rate point of view, looked like the aircraft tottered over the coastline with a pretty low rate of climb compared to the subsonic stuff. That being said she was supersonic 12 minutes after the thrust levers were advanced so she could certainly pick up her heels.
So the question is, if you were operating the aircraft out of somewhere with no climb or noise abatement restrictions (BGI?) on an average day with make take off weight what would be the typical time to M1? Course the 7 year old in me also want to know what the fastest time was that you saw on a revenue trip.
16th Dec 2011, 22:18
permalink Post: 1529
Great thread and I am still enjoying reading it over a year later. I was again watching ITVV Concorde DVD the other night and noticed the Heading/Track button on the A/P. I wondered how you could chose to fly in Track instead of Heading i.e. did you say have to push the button quickly twice to get the track mode?
16th Dec 2011, 23:39
permalink Post: 1530
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by
Nick Thomas
Great thread and I am still enjoying reading it over a year later. I was again watching ITVV Concorde DVD the other night and noticed the Heading/Track button on the A/P. I wondered how you could chose to fly in Track instead of Heading i.e. did you say have to push the button quickly twice to get the track mode?
|
IIRC you had to push/pull the HDG/TRK SET button in or out to set either heading or track which would then show on the HSI.
This from memory only... I may well be wrong.
CJ
28th Jan 2012, 23:18
permalink Post: 1546
Thanks Cristiaan,
From the way you explain this autostabilisation it looks similar to the way a yaw damper works. With a rate gyro, ac current that is phase advanced, filtered and then amplified, but on all 3 axes?
Not being a real bright light on engineering I can see that such a system works to give ,,apparent'' dynamic stability..
Another question perhaps: Does concorde have real trim tabs? Or is it just an artificial feel unit that ,,changes the neutral point in the stick?
I've seen the (awesome, by the way) ITVV documentary but don't remember this being mentioned...
mm43 That's a nice link
From the way you explain this autostabilisation it looks similar to the way a yaw damper works. With a rate gyro, ac current that is phase advanced, filtered and then amplified, but on all 3 axes?
Not being a real bright light on engineering I can see that such a system works to give ,,apparent'' dynamic stability..
Another question perhaps: Does concorde have real trim tabs? Or is it just an artificial feel unit that ,,changes the neutral point in the stick?
I've seen the (awesome, by the way) ITVV documentary but don't remember this being mentioned...
mm43 That's a nice link
22nd Apr 2012, 07:09
permalink Post: 1592
RE: Debow
In the ITVV documentary, the SFE Roger Bricknell mentioned the selection of debow of #3 engine upon startup on the JFK to LHR leg, due to the downtime of the engine. This essentially delays the heat-up of the turbine shaft in favor of a more evenly temperature distribution.
Why wasn't the debow selected for all the other engine? (Roger explicitly mentioned to not needing to select the other engines for debow)
Forgive me, I'm probably missing something that was mentioned earlier in this great thread.
Why wasn't the debow selected for all the other engine? (Roger explicitly mentioned to not needing to select the other engines for debow)
Forgive me, I'm probably missing something that was mentioned earlier in this great thread.