25th Nov 2010, 18:00
permalink Post: 774
Reading this thread has encouraged me to rewatch my Concorde ITVV DVD. During one of the checklists the term TLA is read out as part of the checklist and the reply was something like "13 degrees set"
Am I right in assuming that TLA stands for throttle lever angle? and if so did setting the throttles to a certain angle then give a known thrust setting?
Regards
Nick
Am I right in assuming that TLA stands for throttle lever angle? and if so did setting the throttles to a certain angle then give a known thrust setting?
Regards
Nick
25th Nov 2010, 18:29
permalink Post: 775
Nick
,
I think it refers to setting a 'bug' for the TLA during noise reduction.
Have a google for "Concorde TLA" and poke around a bit, I think you'll find far more far sooner than I can help you with......
CJ
I think it refers to setting a 'bug' for the TLA during noise reduction.
Have a google for "Concorde TLA" and poke around a bit, I think you'll find far more far sooner than I can help you with......
CJ
25th Nov 2010, 21:00
permalink Post: 776
Nick Thomas
... Am I right in assuming that TLA stands for throttle lever angle? ...
Yes. TLA was a TLA for throttle lever angle.
... did setting the throttles to a certain angle then give a known thrust setting? ...
Yes, the calculated thrust required at the noise abatement point. The TLA was calculated by the NHP (as part of the take-off performance calculations) and later cross-checked by the Captain and F/E.
I don\x92t know whether it is audible on the DVD, but the checklist question was \x93Clock and TLA bugs\x94 .
If not already set, the Captain and F/O would set the noise abatement time on their respective (countdown) clocks and the F/E would cross-checked them, and, if not already set, the F/E would set the TLA bugs (on an engraved scale on either side of the throttle quadrant) to the noise abatement setting and the Captain and F/O would cross-check him.
The checklist response was \x94Set\x94 .
Best Regards
Bellerophon
... Am I right in assuming that TLA stands for throttle lever angle? ...
Yes. TLA was a TLA for throttle lever angle.
... did setting the throttles to a certain angle then give a known thrust setting? ...
Yes, the calculated thrust required at the noise abatement point. The TLA was calculated by the NHP (as part of the take-off performance calculations) and later cross-checked by the Captain and F/E.
I don\x92t know whether it is audible on the DVD, but the checklist question was \x93Clock and TLA bugs\x94 .
If not already set, the Captain and F/O would set the noise abatement time on their respective (countdown) clocks and the F/E would cross-checked them, and, if not already set, the F/E would set the TLA bugs (on an engraved scale on either side of the throttle quadrant) to the noise abatement setting and the Captain and F/O would cross-check him.
The checklist response was \x94Set\x94 .
Best Regards
Bellerophon
25th Nov 2010, 23:17
permalink Post: 780
Thanks all for your answers. Bellerophon when I typed my TLA question I could not remember the exact checklist phrase but on reading your answer I am certain that "Clocks and TLA bugs" is clearly said.
It never crossed my mind that there was a connection between Clocks and TLA. Of course if I had given it a little more thought I would have realised that they must be connected on the checklist for a good reason.
The other thing I noticed on the DVD was that the FE said that the brake pressure gauge didn't provide a reading untill about FL 450. I just wondered why that was?
Regards
Nick
It never crossed my mind that there was a connection between Clocks and TLA. Of course if I had given it a little more thought I would have realised that they must be connected on the checklist for a good reason.
The other thing I noticed on the DVD was that the FE said that the brake pressure gauge didn't provide a reading untill about FL 450. I just wondered why that was?
Regards
Nick
26th Nov 2010, 08:58
permalink Post: 782
EXWOK
I think you will find it was 18\xb0 TLA mate (age catching up with us???
. OK I know it has been 7 years).
The 18\xb0 TLA limitation was set to prevent TOD 'pop' surges, due to the resulting large intake ramp angle causing excessive compressor face distortion (the one side effect of the intake 'thin lip' modification).
Best Regards
Dude
Quote:
| Or was it 18?? Late at night here - I'll think about it tomorrow! |
. OK I know it has been 7 years).
The 18\xb0 TLA limitation was set to prevent TOD 'pop' surges, due to the resulting large intake ramp angle causing excessive compressor face distortion (the one side effect of the intake 'thin lip' modification).
Best Regards
Dude
22nd Feb 2014, 03:16
permalink Post: 1789
ruddman
...Being that the Concorde looks like a slippery sob, how were the descents planned?...
The distance required to decel/descend from M2.0 in cruise/climb down to 3,000 at 250 kts was obtained from a checklist chart. Entering with the (expected) FL at Top of Descent and then correcting for the average wind component expected in the descent and also for the temperature deviation from ISA gave the required track miles. It wasn\x92t used a lot, because generally the more critical descent requirement was to decelerate so as to be (just) below M1.0 at a specified point on the arrival route, for noise reasons, to avoid booming land.
There was a second chart, utilised in the same way as the first, which provided this information. Sometimes this distance might need to be increased a little, as, if a subsonic cruise was expected before continuing the approach, the engines were \x93warmed\x94 up at M0.97 and after passing FL410, by the application of power, for one minute, by the Flight Engineer.
...Did you just pull the throttles back to flight idle?...
Only if you were willing to run the risk four pop surges from the engines and the near certainty of a clip round the ear from your Flight Engineer.
Usually the pilots handled the throttles from \x93Power Up to Gear Up\x94 and from \x93Gear Down to Shut Down\x94. The Flight Engineer generally did all the rest, which, thankfully, left all the tricky drills and procedures as his responsibility.
...Or was there a little more engine management and more gradual handling of the engines and descent?...
On a normal decel/descent, the handling pilot would select ALT HOLD and then ask the Flight Engineer to reduce power to 18\xba TLA (Throttle Lever Angle). The speed would decay to 350 kts IAS (Indicated Air Speed) IAS HOLD was engaged and the descent flown at 350 kts IAS. The next power reduction (32\xba TLA) came when, still flying at 350 kts IAS, the Mach number reduced through M1.50.
...And I'm guessing the approach speeds were fairly high so hitting the touchdown zone was pretty important?...
In terms of not running off the end of the runway, touching down in the correct spot was as important on Concorde as on other aircraft types.
However, due to the geometry of Concorde on landing, the tail, engine pods and reverser buckets were already fairly close to the runway. Add in a \x93firm\x94 touchdown, or if the wings are not completely level, and ground clearance becomes marginal, so a prolonged flare and floated landing, with an increasing aircraft attitude, was not acceptable. The risk of a pod, tail or a reverser bucket scrape on Concorde was greater than on most conventional jet aircraft.
... So if things got out of shape a little, and a G/A was required, how do you handle what looks like 4 rockets on the wings and applying the right amount of power?...
...Being that the Concorde looks like a slippery sob, how were the descents planned?...
The distance required to decel/descend from M2.0 in cruise/climb down to 3,000 at 250 kts was obtained from a checklist chart. Entering with the (expected) FL at Top of Descent and then correcting for the average wind component expected in the descent and also for the temperature deviation from ISA gave the required track miles. It wasn\x92t used a lot, because generally the more critical descent requirement was to decelerate so as to be (just) below M1.0 at a specified point on the arrival route, for noise reasons, to avoid booming land.
There was a second chart, utilised in the same way as the first, which provided this information. Sometimes this distance might need to be increased a little, as, if a subsonic cruise was expected before continuing the approach, the engines were \x93warmed\x94 up at M0.97 and after passing FL410, by the application of power, for one minute, by the Flight Engineer.
...Did you just pull the throttles back to flight idle?...
Only if you were willing to run the risk four pop surges from the engines and the near certainty of a clip round the ear from your Flight Engineer.
Usually the pilots handled the throttles from \x93Power Up to Gear Up\x94 and from \x93Gear Down to Shut Down\x94. The Flight Engineer generally did all the rest, which, thankfully, left all the tricky drills and procedures as his responsibility.
...Or was there a little more engine management and more gradual handling of the engines and descent?...
On a normal decel/descent, the handling pilot would select ALT HOLD and then ask the Flight Engineer to reduce power to 18\xba TLA (Throttle Lever Angle). The speed would decay to 350 kts IAS (Indicated Air Speed) IAS HOLD was engaged and the descent flown at 350 kts IAS. The next power reduction (32\xba TLA) came when, still flying at 350 kts IAS, the Mach number reduced through M1.50.
...And I'm guessing the approach speeds were fairly high so hitting the touchdown zone was pretty important?...
In terms of not running off the end of the runway, touching down in the correct spot was as important on Concorde as on other aircraft types.
However, due to the geometry of Concorde on landing, the tail, engine pods and reverser buckets were already fairly close to the runway. Add in a \x93firm\x94 touchdown, or if the wings are not completely level, and ground clearance becomes marginal, so a prolonged flare and floated landing, with an increasing aircraft attitude, was not acceptable. The risk of a pod, tail or a reverser bucket scrape on Concorde was greater than on most conventional jet aircraft.
... So if things got out of shape a little, and a G/A was required, how do you handle what looks like 4 rockets on the wings and applying the right amount of power?...
- Disconnect the autothrottles.
- Apply FULL power without reheat.
- Rotate to 15\xba and level the wings.
- Check for Positive Climb then call for the Gear Up.
- Maintain 15\xba and accelerate (you will accelerate!)
- Passing around 210 kts, reduce power to 95% N2.
- Approaching 250 kts, engage Autothrottles for 250 kts
- Reduce Pitch Attitude, aiming to achieve 2,000 fpm RoC.
- Do not miss the level off altitude for the GA profile.
22nd Mar 2016, 00:26
permalink Post: 1934
Hello all, great thread!
I was just reading a few of my Concorde things and I have seen mention of several other manuals used by the crews other than the flying manual, like the performance manual, cruise control manual and navigation manual.
I believe (perhaps wrongly!) that the performance manual contained the take-off data for weight, V speeds, noise time, TLA etc and I'm guessing the cruise manual had all the tables for cruise performances. Am I correct in my guess work?
What kind of info was in the navigation manual as I think airfield charts were separate?
Any info would be great!
I was just reading a few of my Concorde things and I have seen mention of several other manuals used by the crews other than the flying manual, like the performance manual, cruise control manual and navigation manual.
I believe (perhaps wrongly!) that the performance manual contained the take-off data for weight, V speeds, noise time, TLA etc and I'm guessing the cruise manual had all the tables for cruise performances. Am I correct in my guess work?
What kind of info was in the navigation manual as I think airfield charts were separate?
Any info would be great!