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| henra
January 31, 2025, 15:07:00 GMT permalink Post: 11818276 |
When measuring the length of the Blackhawk in that CNN vid vs. the height above the Potomac I end up at ~250 - 280ft. In this case surely tragic but 50ish ft high does not really seem a lot, especially at night in a high workload situation possibly on goggles.
Subjects
Blackhawk (H-60)
CNN
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| fdr
January 31, 2025, 17:42:00 GMT permalink Post: 11818402 |
I have been watching this thread for a while now and felt compelled to respond, mainly due to some of the comments on here, a proportion of which, come from professionals within our industry which in itself is troubling.
Lets break it down based on what we know so far: See and Avoid We have years... Procedures - There is nothing inherently wrong... The Controller - Reports suggest that controller numbers... Phraseology - Others on here have mentioned about phraseology used.. Duty of Care - Some of here have spoken about the transfer of responsibility onto the helicopter operator. This is a pet hate of mine, of people hiding behind the rules to abrogate responsibility. Everyone in the system has a duty of care and Air Traffic Controllers, regardless of type of service, have an accountability to do what they can to prevent collisions. That is written into the highest levels of ICAO Annex 11 My condolences to all involved and my thoughts are also with those under investigation, who I feel may have been let down by the system. The losses so far in this case are almost defined, except that the unfortunate ATC officer is a victim of nothing more than being human and working within the constraints of a system that he did not design or have responsibility of. He has the most powerful pumpkin in the world defaming him from the normalised position of gross ignorance to such an extent that even Fox news and CNN push back. I would suggest that a suicide watch be placed on this poor individual to protect him from the hurtful comments that exude from the incumbent of the WH. This guy is going through hell, as much or more so than any other person suffering the loss in this mishap.
Spoiler
PS: Humans may be the frail part of the system but they are also the most resilient parts. We will have moments in the following months to doubt that, history highlights failures not successes. Last edited by fdr; 31st January 2025 at 17:56 . Subjects
ATC
Accountability/Liability
CNN
ICAO
Phraseology (ATC)
See and Avoid
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| W9SQD
January 31, 2025, 17:45:00 GMT permalink Post: 11818406 |
The Federal Aviation Administration has indefinitely shut down the low-altitude helicopter corridor that was in use at the time of Wednesday night’s fatal midair collision near Reagan National Airport, an FAA official tells CNN.
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/pla...-25/index.html Subjects
CNN
FAA
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| Chesty Morgan
January 31, 2025, 17:54:00 GMT permalink Post: 11818415 |
The Federal Aviation Administration has indefinitely shut down the low-altitude helicopter corridor that was in use at the time of Wednesday night\x92s fatal midair collision near Reagan National Airport, an FAA official tells CNN.
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/pla...-25/index.html Subjects
CNN
FAA
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| grizzled
January 31, 2025, 19:13:00 GMT permalink Post: 11818466 |
The Federal Aviation Administration has indefinitely shut down the low-altitude helicopter corridor that was in use at the time of Wednesday night\x92s fatal midair collision near Reagan National Airport, an FAA official tells CNN.
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/pla...-25/index.html The most important function of an aviation Safety Management System (SMS) is to prevent accidents by identifying hazards, assess them for associated risk, and then act to mitigate those risks, before the known hazard or incident becomes an accident. Looking at the list posted above by NIBEX2A, it is crystal clear that the hazards were well known, and reported, but no appropriate mitigations were implemented -- until 67 lives were lost. Sadly, this accident will no doubt be used as an example in the future, of how Reason's famous cheese holes can, and will, line up -- and what can happen if those holes aren't closed. Subjects
CNN
FAA
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| fdr
February 01, 2025, 03:57:00 GMT permalink Post: 11818752 |
The Federal Aviation Administration has indefinitely shut down the low-altitude helicopter corridor that was in use at the time of Wednesday night’s fatal midair collision near Reagan National Airport, an FAA official tells CNN.
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/pla...-25/index.html
Would suspending all operations of the cross runways not simplify the flow control and traffic management, while achieving the needs of the DOD and the unique needs of DC, without setting up new risks over densely populated areas? The primary runway is fit for purpose, the cross runways do not meaningfully increase operational capacity any more than a well set up series of taxiways at either end of the main runway. The FAA's response is laudable as an immediate response, but it may not be the best risk mitigation in this case. Subjects
CNN
FAA
Route 4
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| nojwod
February 01, 2025, 11:39:00 GMT permalink Post: 11818951 |
According to CNN, the crash was waiting to happen.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/30/u...nvs/index.html
Captain Steeve has a good analyis and probably quite close to what actually happened. I agree with the comment on the video that
at the point which PAT25 initially requests visual separation and confirms traffic in sight, it looks like the AA5324 CRJ had already commenced right turn for circling approach at which point the brightest landing lights would be the aircraft behind as AA5324s would no longer be pointing directly at the helicopter. The brightest landing light is now the No.2 traffic which PAT25 identifies as their traffic and will probably now be fixated on due to confirmation bias. Terribly tragic and could happen to any pilot at night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfgllf1L9_4 If they were using NVG as speculated, the failure to see the landing lights of the approaching aircraft might be explained by a scenario where : Crew mistakenly identified the following aircraft, either with NVG on or temporarily off. Happy with the separation, the NGV gear goes back on and with the limited field of view from the goggles, focused ahead and down as visual flight demands, the landing lights, so bright in the videos, were just never seen, but without the goggles the peripheral vision of the crew might have had some warning. Subjects
CNN
CRJ
Circle to Land (Deviate to RWY 33)
Night Vision Goggles (NVG)
PAT25
Separation (ALL)
Traffic in Sight
Visual Separation
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