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| galaxy flyer
February 01, 2025, 14:48:00 GMT permalink Post: 11819067 |
The NYT link should work. It shows the helicopter v. Airplane traffic for the week (!) prior. There’s is no way in heck, that much helicopter traffic needs to be integrated with air carrier traffic. The govt hasn’t been in danger of continuity challenges in decades.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ane-crash.html Subjects
New York Times
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| fdr
February 01, 2025, 18:07:00 GMT permalink Post: 11819203 |
Interesting and fairly well researched NY Times article (the failing kind...)
My thoughts: I continue to see this as:
Criss-Crossing Routes in D.C. Airspace Leave Little Room for ErrorBy Elena Shao , Leanne Abraham , Eli Murray and Lazaro GamioThe pictures are out of order, the tracks are for "1-Week" of data. The latest NOTAM is a good start, the helo fleet operators may want to revisit the concept of the flyways.
A deadly midair collision between an American Airlines passenger jet and a U.S. Army helicopter near Ronald Reagan National Airport in Washington highlights the complexity of navigating an airspace with many civilian and military aircraft. The airport has three runways that intersect, but only one is used for nearly all of its hundreds of daily flights. With the routes of aircraft routinely criss-crossing one another, there is little room for error as planes descend onto the runways. To stay out of the way of commercial jets, helicopters in this area are supposed to fly along a route designated by the Federal Aviation Administration at an altitude no higher than 200 feet. Air traffic data from the past week shows that helicopters flying along the Potomac River must navigate amid the takeoffs and landings of hundreds of planes daily. While they are advised by the F.A.A. to stick to a tight air corridor above the eastern bank of the river, data shows that in reality, helicopters can be spotted across the width of the river. One week of air traffic at Reagan NationalDots show positions of planes during their takeoffs and landings at Reagan National Airport, as well as the positions of helicopters as they traversed the area from Jan. 23 to Jan. 30.The American Airlines flight was cleared to land on Runway 1 before being instructed by an air traffic controller shortly before the collision to pivot its landing route to the intersecting Runway 33. The last-minute request to switch runways at Reagan National is “very common,” said Shawn Pruchnicki, a former airline pilot and an assistant professor at the Center for Aviation Studies at Ohio State University, who said he has piloted aircraft into the airport more than a hundred times. Skies were clear on Wednesday night when the two aircraft collided. But, in case of low visibility, like in poor weather, the F.A.A. has designed “instrument approaches,” or descents that involve a series of steps pilots must follow to maneuver down to the runway safely. The instrument approach for Runway 1 calls for a descending plane to cross over the helicopter corridor while the plane is at a much higher altitude, somewhere from 620 to 1,700 feet and more than a minute from landing. The approach for Runway 33, however, calls for a plane to cross over the helicopter corridor at a much lower altitude, because a plane is seconds from landing. The clearance between a helicopter in the corridor and a descending plane may be from 100 to 300 feet, which can result in close calls if there are severe fluctuations in the altitude of either aircraft. Sources: Helicopter route and instrument approach data from the Federal Aviation Administration Note: An instrument approach is a descent that involves a series of scripted flight maneuvers, with pilots using navigation aids and instruments to reach the runway safely when visibility is low, such as in poor weather. The [failing] New York Times Given the clear nighttime weather, the plane’s pilots would not have been expected to initiate an instrument approach to aid their landing, Mr. Pruchnicki said, and instead could have used their vision to guide their descent to the runway. Data on the aircraft’s positions indicates that the pilots’ route was very similar to the one outlined in an instrument approach. For example, the plane maintained roughly the recommended altitude when it made a leftward turn toward Runway 33. In this case, the Army Black Hawk requested permission to use the route designated for helicopters, meaning that it would keep to the eastern bank of the Potomac and stay under 200 feet in altitude. But the helicopter was at least a half-mile off of the approved route when it collided with the jet, according to four people briefed on the matter but not authorized to speak publicly. The helicopter was also flying above 300 feet, not below 200, the people said. The crash also renewed questions about the safety of intersecting runways, which the F.A.A. has sought to eliminate or close in recent years in places like Chicago and Dallas because of concerns over congestion on the ground. The setup can increase the workload of the air traffic controller, especially if the two runways are getting used simultaneously for takeoff and landing, said Cyriel Kronenburg, a former air traffic controller and pilot. An internal preliminary report from the F.A.A., which was reviewed by The New York Times , said that a supervisor allowed an air traffic controller to leave early, sometime before the crash. This left one air traffic controller to manage the dual roles of handling helicopters in the airport’s vicinity and also instructing planes that were landing and departing from runways, according to a person briefed on the matter. While it is within the supervisor’s discretion to combine the duties, that staffing configuration “was not normal for the time of day and volume of traffic,” the F.A.A. report said. A Times investigation in 2023 found that the nation’s air traffic control facilities are chronically understaffed , contributing to an alarming number of close calls in the skies and on the runways across the country. Before the plane crash on Wednesday night, there were at least 10 close calls at Reagan National in the last three years that were documented in government records reviewed by The Times. Additional research by Riley Mellen. See more on: Federal Aviation Administration (F.A.A.) https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...smid=url-share Subjects
ATC
Blackhawk (H-60)
Close Calls
FAA
Preliminary Report
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| spornrad
February 06, 2025, 20:50:00 GMT permalink Post: 11823205 |
NYT has attempted a reconstruction of the visual picture
from the Blackhawk at the time of the first traffic alert, with the CRJ just south of Wilson Bridge.
They could only later identify the correct light spot by following its trajectory according to their mental image of the approach to 33.
Subjects
Blackhawk (H-60)
CRJ
New York Times
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| Peristatos
February 07, 2025, 09:22:00 GMT permalink Post: 11823469 |
Army Helicopter’s Tracking Technology Turned Off at Time of Crash
Senator Ted Cruz, the chairman of the committee with oversight of transportation, said there was no compelling reason for the technology not to have been in use when the helicopter collided with a commercial jet over the Potomac River. Subjects: None 1 recorded likes for this post.Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads. |
| paulross
February 07, 2025, 10:27:00 GMT permalink Post: 11823522 |
NYT has attempted a reconstruction of the visual picture
from the Blackhawk at the time of the first traffic alert, with the CRJ just south of Wilson Bridge.
They could only later identify the correct light spot by following its trajectory according to their mental image of the approach to 33.
Subjects
Blackhawk (H-60)
CRJ
New York Times
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| deltafox44
February 10, 2025, 17:17:00 GMT permalink Post: 11825626 |
Not meaning to pick on you individually, it’s just that you have a great line to quote!
I think the point may be that in those 50yrs you may actually have made a mistake identifying an aircraft, but we don’t have the data. Just because you didn’t have a collision or Airmiss you can’t say for certain that everything worked perfectly. If you mistakenly identify the wrong aircraft, but don’t realise and don’t actually hit anything and the other party also don’t notice/report, then the error is never recognised, nor recorded. Are we suggesting that this scenario has never happened in the history of aviation? A flight that doesn’t end in a crash does not mean it was perfect. I think many pilots would have made a mistake indentifying : seen from the helo, there are 3 aircraft in final, plus 1 on take-off, at the same bearing, how can you tell for sure which is the one "just south of Wilson Bridge" ?
NYT has attempted a reconstruction of the visual picture
from the Blackhawk at the time of the first traffic alert, with the CRJ just south of Wilson Bridge.
They could only later identify the correct light spot by following its trajectory according to their mental image of the approach to 33.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 10th February 2025 at 21:20 . Reason: Image source Subjects
Blackhawk (H-60)
CRJ
New York Times
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| Wide Mouth Frog
February 10, 2025, 18:56:00 GMT permalink Post: 11825666 |
+1
I think many pilots would have made a mistake indentifying : seen from the helo, there are 3 aircraft in final, plus 1 on take-off, at the same bearing, how can you tell for sure which is the one "just south of Wilson Bridge" ?
NYT has attempted a reconstruction of the visual picture
from the Blackhawk at the time of the first traffic alert, with the CRJ just south of Wilson Bridge.
They could only later identify the correct light spot by following its trajectory according to their mental image of the approach to 33.
At the same time the accident aircraft peels off to the right to swing around and line up to 33, thus taking his (smaller) lights out of the helicopter's direct line of vision and leaving 3130's (brighter) lights still heading to 01 to decoy the pilot. The reflexive nature of the helicopter's responses suggest to me that the full implication of 'circling to 33' in the tower's first call was missed, and also sort of implies that the helicopter could not conceive that following (nearly) the published heliroute could lead him into conflict with an aircraft on final. Me neither.
NOTAM 5/1069 for DCA, valid from 07 Feb 0200 UTC until 31 March 2359 UTC
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 10th February 2025 at 21:22 . Reason: Quote Subjects
Blackhawk (H-60)
CRJ
DCA
New York Times
PAT25
Separation (ALL)
Visual Separation
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| visibility3miles
April 27, 2025, 12:51:00 GMT permalink Post: 11874368 |
Missteps, Equipment Problems and a Common but Risky Practice Led to a Fatal CrashNew details revealed by The Times show that the failures on Jan. 29 before an Army helicopter crashed into a jet near Reagan National Airport were far more complex than previously known.https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/27/b...smid=url-share Subjects: None No recorded likes for this post (could be before pprune supported 'likes').Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads. |
| Winemaker
December 11, 2025, 01:13:00 GMT permalink Post: 12003392 |
NTSB Chairwoman speaks out about legislation to again allow uncontrolled military helicopter flights through Washington D.C. From the New York Times
https://archive.ph/7YCHK
The chair of the National Transportation Safety Board and the bipartisan leaders of the Senate committee overseeing aviation warned on Wednesday that a section in a new defense bill would weaken safety measures around Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport and worsen the risk of midair collisions between military and commercial aircraft.
“This is shameful,” Jennifer Homendy, the N.T.S.B. chair, told reporters, arguing that the provision “essentially gives the military unfettered access” to fly through Washington’s airspace without broadcasting their aircraft’s location to other pilots. N.T.S.B. investigators examining the Jan. 29 midair collision between an Army Black Hawk helicopter and a commercial jet near the airport that killed 67 people are focusing on the fact that the helicopter was not using enhanced tracking technology. Ms. Homendy, visibly angry, said that if the helicopter safety provision in the defense bill became law, she would be concerned about the safety of flying in the crowded airspace near the nation’s capital. “It is a step backward,” she added. “In fact, I would say it’s a safety whitewash.” Last edited by Winemaker; 11th December 2025 at 03:30 . Reason: language usage correction Subjects
Blackhawk (H-60)
NTSB
NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy
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