Posts about: "Route 9" [Posts: 3 Page: 1 of 1]ΒΆ

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BFSGrad
March 11, 2025, 03:45:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11845055
Originally Posted by LowObservable
Seems like Marine One is still the only helo allowed to fly around here, inside the Beltway at least. Route 5 (I-395 to the Pentagon) seems completely shut down.
It may seem that way but not the case. Any of the flight tracker programs show regular helicopter activity inside the Beltway with plenty of medical helo ops plus LEO ops (FFX, PG, DC, MSP, USCG). Even a few news helos. What does seem to have changed is PAT ops inside the Beltway, at least temporarily. Training flights have shifted outside the Beltway to a variety of locations, including Route 9. Two PAT flights today circumnavigated the Beltway.

Originally Posted by LowObservable
Almost as if there was no safety case behind the PAT operation.
Not sure what you mean by this comment. CW3 Roth interview explained the training requirement for Route 1/4 ops. Question is whether these training flights can be conducted safely. I think they can as long as ATC doesn\x92t delegate their primary responsibility for Class B separation. It is politically untenable to resume Route 1/4 PAT training flights at present. I suspect 12th AB and DCA ATC are reviewing their previous policy that VFR visual separation is safe along these routes.

Subjects ATC  DCA  Route 5  Route 9  Separation (ALL)  VFR  Visual Separation

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BFSGrad
April 29, 2025, 17:04:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11875527
Originally Posted by LowObservable
... why does Route 5 remain almost completely shut down , and not by the FAA? I have 100% visual and audible on every Route 5 movement from The Lair, even if I'm not at my desk. Seen two operations since the accident.
It would appear that while DoD reevaluates its helicopter operations inside the Beltway, it has shifted training flights to outside the Beltway. The only exception appears to be the USCG MH65s as they are based at DCA but even those are now flying more outside the Beltway.

If Route 5 is not being used (and Route 4 is shutdown), how are military helicopters accessing JPN?

Prior to the DCA accident, I don\x92t know that I\x92d ever seen a UH-60 out my way on Route 9 in nearly 3 decades. Now PAT UH-60s are almost a daily occurrence on Route 9 (saw/heard 4 yesterday). The ADW-based UH-1Ns are also flying Route 9 more frequently.

I maintain the the DC helicopter routes (including Route 4) interior to the Beltway are not inherently unsafe if used with appropriate restrictions and ATC-applied separation.

Subjects DCA  FAA  Route 4  Route 5  Route 9  Separation (ALL)

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BFSGrad
May 02, 2025, 18:47:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11877325
Back in my post #1385, I briefly mentioned some new info that the NTSB provided at the 3/27 Senate hearing regarding the NTSB’s investigation of the functionality of the 12th AB UH-60 fleet ADS-B systems. Below is the full transcript of the NTSB’s relevant testimony:

NTSB: One thing I can say on ADS-B Out OFF that’s policy of the Army. We are still looking at installation, programming and potential for equipment malfunction, and the reason that I mention this is because, for this accident helicopter, no ADS-B data had been received from an FAA ground station for 730 days prior to the accident and that was abnormal.

NTSB: So we began looking at the fleet for the battalion [12th AB]. The battalion had 25 helicopters that includes this particular helicopter. Nine of them were Mike models and all were transmitting ADS-B Out when they were turned ON because we have to verify that it’s working. There were 16 Limas including the accident helicopter, which we’re still looking at. Seven were transmitting when ADS-B Out was turned ON; eight were not and stopped doing so something between May and November 2023. We don’t know why. Five of those started transmitting since the NTSB identified the issue and began working with the Army to try to isolate the reason. So I just want to let you know that you can have ADS-B Out ON but you have to also make sure that it’s working.

Sen. Moran: You indicated working with the Army, but there’s other participants in this arena. Were you narrowing it to the Army? Is there something necessarily wrong there or is there a problem more broadly in receiving the information?

NTSB: For the ADS-B Out we wanted to look at the helicopter fleet for the battalion to see whether ADS-B Out, when turned ON, was actually transmitting data because we did think it was abnormal that, for the helicopter involved in the accident, wasn’t transmitting data for so long.
Since the DCA accident, the flight tracking apps have shown DC military helicopter flights (PAT, MUSL) to be using ADS-B on a regular basis. However, I can also report that, a couple nights ago, a pair of UH-60s flying Route 9 passed by my house, the second about 5 miles in trail of the first. On ADS-B Exchange the first UH-60 was shown by only a generic aircraft icon with MLAT data. The second UH-60 was displaying ADS-B data. Since it was dark, no idea if these were Mike or Lima UH-60s.

Subjects ADSB (All)  ADSB Out  DCA  FAA  NTSB  Route 9

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