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AirScotia
January 31, 2025, 23:42:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11818626

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoWest

Rubbish

Listen to the audio at 1.10 to 1.13

Controller asks PAT25 if CRJ in sight NO ANSWER

Controller asks PAT25 to pass behind. NO ANSWER

Dealt with.

There are several recordings - not all of them capture the helicopter frequency.

This shows exactly the communications. The heli was told about the CRJ at 1200ft, going for 33. The heli said explicitly they had the plane in sight.

7:20 onwards.

Subjects ATC CRJ PAT25 Pass Behind Pass Behind (All) Pass Behind (PAT25)

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AirScotia
February 25, 2025, 21:34:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11835944

Very interesting discussion with a former Blackhawk pilot who's often flown that route.

Interesting that he was often asked to hold at Hains Point.

Subjects Blackhawk (H-60) DCA

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AirScotia
March 18, 2025, 10:58:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11849504

Not sure if the Blancolirio link has been posted yet, but just in case, he's got a useful summation:

Subjects: None

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AirScotia
March 29, 2025, 16:50:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11856752

Quote:

Originally Posted by VHOED191006

Ohhhh for f***sake

Even worse, this one just posted by VASAviation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPQjQ23YTJo

" Delta Airlines A319 performing flight from Washington to Minneapolis was on the initial climb when the pilots received an onboard collision avoidance alert due to a flight of four T-38 Military Jets coming too close for a practice maneuver over the airport."

Subjects: None

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AirScotia
August 02, 2025, 08:19:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11932210

Holmedy also had to tell witnesses to switch off their phones, as they were clearly texting each other about testimony. Along with moving witnesses so they couldn't nudge each other's elbows at critical moments, it was like watching an exasperated teacher with a class of eight year-olds.

Subjects: None

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AirScotia
September 28, 2025, 16:55:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11961070

Does anyone know whether DCA (via the FAA database) has a significantly higher rate of dodgy incidents per movement than other airports? Unless it has, I can't see how blaming the airlines is a starter.

Subjects DCA FAA

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AirScotia
December 14, 2025, 14:58:00 GMT
permalink Post: 12005181

As a non-lawyer and non-American, can I just clarify my understanding of this situation:

Following the accident, the NTSB recommended that military helo flights not fly that route while 15/33 was in use;
The FAA concurred, and this was implemented on a temporary basis;
Section 373 of a bill that has already passed the House would allow military helo flights to resume, as prior to the accident, with 'waivers' to let them fly there as they like;
The waivers could be granted by many military personnel at different levels of seniority, meaning the waivers would be effectively permanent;
The NTSB had recommended that military flights in DCA airspace should use ADS-B Out, so that military flights could be detected above 900ft in a busy airspace. The FAA and DoD agreed.
Section 373 takes away the requirement for ADS-B Out, reducing safety.
Section 373 gets round the ADS-B Out requirement by specifying that military aircraft should only be required to be able to trigger to TCAS alerts.
TCAS does not activate at low altitudes, such as when landing, so is useless on the route the helos use to pass DCA.
Therefore the only reasonable safety measure is not to let military flights onto that route while 15/33 is in use. Section 373 reverses that safety measure.
'Someone' sneaked Section 373 into the bill, and nobody knows who or when.
The bill passed without anybody noticing Section 373.
So unless the Senate challenges, this legislation will go through
The legislation would make it harder for families to blame the military/government for the DCA accident, by confirming the correctness of protocols at the time
Chair Homendy is furious.

If I've got this wrong, can you correct me?

I'm absolutely staggered that something this important could have been 'slipped' into a major piece of legislation, without a final read-through of changes since the last version. Surely there's an audit trail of changes and who submitted or entered them?

Subjects ADSB (All) ADSB Out DCA FAA NTSB NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy Section 373 of the FY26 NDAA TCAS (All)

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AirScotia January 31, 2025, 23:42:00 GMT permalink Post: 11818626	Quote: Originally Posted by GoWest Rubbish Listen to the audio at 1.10 to 1.13 Controller asks PAT25 if CRJ in sight NO ANSWER Controller asks PAT25 to pass behind. NO ANSWER Dealt with. There are several recordings - not all of them capture the helicopter frequency. This shows exactly the communications. The heli was told about the CRJ at 1200ft, going for 33. The heli said explicitly they had the plane in sight. 7:20 onwards. You Tube Subjects ATC CRJ PAT25 Pass Behind Pass Behind (All) Pass Behind (PAT25) Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. No recorded likes for this post (could be before pprune supported 'likes'). Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
AirScotia February 25, 2025, 21:34:00 GMT permalink Post: 11835944	Very interesting discussion with a former Blackhawk pilot who's often flown that route. Former Army Pilot Provides Inside Information On DCA Potomac River Crash Interesting that he was often asked to hold at Hains Point. Subjects Blackhawk (H-60) DCA Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 7 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
AirScotia March 18, 2025, 10:58:00 GMT permalink Post: 11849504	Not sure if the Blancolirio link has been posted yet, but just in case, he's got a useful summation: You Tube Subjects: None 1 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
AirScotia March 29, 2025, 16:50:00 GMT permalink Post: 11856752	Quote: Originally Posted by VHOED191006 Ohhhh for f*sake Even worse, this one just posted by VASAviation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPQjQ23YTJo " Delta Airlines A319 performing flight from Washington to Minneapolis was on the initial climb when the pilots received an onboard collision avoidance alert due to a flight of four T-38 Military Jets coming too close for a practice maneuver over the airport." Subjects:** None No recorded likes for this post (could be before pprune supported 'likes'). Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
AirScotia August 02, 2025, 08:19:00 GMT permalink Post: 11932210	Holmedy also had to tell witnesses to switch off their phones, as they were clearly texting each other about testimony. Along with moving witnesses so they couldn't nudge each other's elbows at critical moments, it was like watching an exasperated teacher with a class of eight year-olds. Subjects: None 4 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
AirScotia September 28, 2025, 16:55:00 GMT permalink Post: 11961070	Does anyone know whether DCA (via the FAA database) has a significantly higher rate of dodgy incidents per movement than other airports? Unless it has, I can't see how blaming the airlines is a starter. Subjects DCA FAA Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 1 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
AirScotia December 14, 2025, 14:58:00 GMT permalink Post: 12005181	As a non-lawyer and non-American, can I just clarify my understanding of this situation: Following the accident, the NTSB recommended that military helo flights not fly that route while 15/33 was in use; The FAA concurred, and this was implemented on a temporary basis; Section 373 of a bill that has already passed the House would allow military helo flights to resume, as prior to the accident, with 'waivers' to let them fly there as they like; The waivers could be granted by many military personnel at different levels of seniority, meaning the waivers would be effectively permanent; The NTSB had recommended that military flights in DCA airspace should use ADS-B Out, so that military flights could be detected above 900ft in a busy airspace. The FAA and DoD agreed. Section 373 takes away the requirement for ADS-B Out, reducing safety. Section 373 gets round the ADS-B Out requirement by specifying that military aircraft should only be required to be able to trigger to TCAS alerts. TCAS does not activate at low altitudes, such as when landing, so is useless on the route the helos use to pass DCA. Therefore the only reasonable safety measure is not to let military flights onto that route while 15/33 is in use. Section 373 reverses that safety measure. 'Someone' sneaked Section 373 into the bill, and nobody knows who or when. The bill passed without anybody noticing Section 373. So unless the Senate challenges, this legislation will go through The legislation would make it harder for families to blame the military/government for the DCA accident, by confirming the correctness of protocols at the time Chair Homendy is furious. If I've got this wrong, can you correct me? I'm absolutely staggered that something this important could have been 'slipped' into a major piece of legislation, without a final read-through of changes since the last version. Surely there's an audit trail of changes and who submitted or entered them? Subjects ADSB (All) ADSB Out DCA FAA NTSB NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy Section 373 of the FY26 NDAA TCAS (All) Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 2 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.

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