Posts by user "Commando Cody" [Posts: 8 Total up-votes: 7 Page: 1 of 1]¶

Originally Posted by JohnDixson

Pat I was referring to the ground track change. At their altitude, it wasn\x92t something that would be unnoticed.
Just thinking: they are coming up on the extended centerline of 33, and keep going? Were there any tower or CRJ transmits that indicated the CRJ was on short final?

Originally Posted by BrogulT

And thank you for sharing your experience. I asked this earlier but haven't gotten a direct reply: If you know, what would have happened if the controller had asked PAT25 to "hold" at the holding point near Hains Point? Is that the function of those holding points and is there some set procedure or pattern?

Originally Posted by WHBM

Dulles has been "available" for the last 60 years. Fact is that the passengers do not want to go out there, and despite slots being readily available at one and not the other, there has been constant pressure by carriers to actually leave there and go back to National. This is a commercial reality that can be seen worldwide with remote-versus-close in airports. Montreal, Tokyo, even Gatwick to Heathrow, are examples. The accident flight is a typical example, flights from Wichita, Kansas, would previously have been outside the "perimeter" of permitted operations. American never did a flight from Wichita to Dulles.

The relatively new Metro out to Dulles stops at umpteen stations every mile or less all the way out there, and is normally pretty empty on the last stretch. Like public transport in other USA major cities, it is unusual not to encounter homeless or drugged travellers in the train. Not many inhabitants, and hardly any visitors to the city, would contemplate using it.

I feel it will be most unjust if commercial operations for many passengers are restricted as an outcome of what, to put it obliquely, are questionable operations by the military.

Originally Posted by remi

* ATC hiring: Pay more, hire more, create alternative career structures that allow qualified "old" people in their 30s to start jobs at ATC while giving them a fair framework for retirement

None of this needs "AI" or "satellites" or "complete rework" or "woodchipper" to fix. It just needs money and constant re-commitment to safety, and commitment to compromising in favor of safety when a decision of "revenue vs safety" arises. Honestly I think it's mostly about money. Perhaps 99% about money. Perhaps 100%.

Originally Posted by Lead Balloon

It appears from the NTSB's most recent press conference that the instruction "pass behind the CRJ" was not heard in the helo's CVR and, therefore by inference, not heard by the crew. Am I correct in assuming that there is no requirement to readback an instruction like that in the USA? ATC appeared not to expect one.

Originally Posted by Stagformation

LC says, “PAT25, do you have the CRJ in sight?”

PAT25 says (for the second time), “Traffic visual, request visual separation”,
which is not true, evidently they were not visual at all because they crashed into the CRJ.

LC responds, “Visual separation approved, [pass behind the] CRJ,”
which clearance was issued on the false premise that PAT25 was visual. But PAT 25 only hears, “Visual separation approved…[pause]…CRJ,” because they briefly stepped on the LC’s transmission themselves. No read back is forthcoming; the LC should be expecting one but he fails to chase it up, because he’s too busy.

If PAT 25 realised he’s stepped on the middle part of the LC’s transmission to himself (which likely could have included an instruction) then he ought to be professional enough to say, “Stepped on, say again,” etc and make absolutely sure he knows what the clearance may have been. That was standard practice a long time ago, but no longer, it seems.

My original point was that in the Mover/Gonky video (post #1228) it was suggested that it’s perfectly OK to second guess what ATC might have said to you, reply to that, and then if no correction is forthcoming you can comply with your guess. As others have pointed out implicitly, that works if there’s only one error involved, but here there were three: an untrue statement, leading to a wrongly issued clearance, and a missing read back.

System broken.

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer

KIAD isn\x92t in Kansas, it\x92s not that far away and Herndon/Reston has become quite built up. Lots of DCA flying could move to the airport that was built to reduce traffic at DCA.