January 30, 2025, 05:14:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11816887
it has been a lot warmer in DC the last few days. Today it was in the mid-50s F although at the moment it is around 37 F. The river might not have been iced over, but it is still very cold. Cold enough for hypothermia to be a major problem.
Subjects: None
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January 30, 2025, 05:33:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11816897
Rescue crews are searching for the Black Hawk and its three crew members in the Potomac River, near the commercial aircraft crash site, defense officials said.
The Black Hawk took off from Fort Belvoir, Va., defense officials said, and was part 12th Aviation Battalion. The battalion is responsible for transporting VIP passengers, usually top Pentagon leaders. There were three crew members on board, the officials said, but none were VIPs.
The three troops on board the Black Hawk were conducting a training flight, according to a spokeswoman Joint Task Force-National Capitol Region.
\x93We can confirm that the aircraft involved in tonight\x92s incident was an Army UH-60 helicopter from Bravo Company, 12th Aviation Battalion, out of Davison Army Airfield, Fort Belvoir during a training flight. We are working with local officials and will provide additional information once it becomes available,\x94 the spokeswoman said.
Usually, such flights are manned by a pilot, instructor pilot and crew chief.
The Black Hawk took off from Fort Belvoir, Va., defense officials said, and was part 12th Aviation Battalion. The battalion is responsible for transporting VIP passengers, usually top Pentagon leaders. There were three crew members on board, the officials said, but none were VIPs.
The three troops on board the Black Hawk were conducting a training flight, according to a spokeswoman Joint Task Force-National Capitol Region.
\x93We can confirm that the aircraft involved in tonight\x92s incident was an Army UH-60 helicopter from Bravo Company, 12th Aviation Battalion, out of Davison Army Airfield, Fort Belvoir during a training flight. We are working with local officials and will provide additional information once it becomes available,\x94 the spokeswoman said.
Usually, such flights are manned by a pilot, instructor pilot and crew chief.
Subjects
Blackhawk (H-60)
CNN
Wall Street Journal
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January 30, 2025, 13:20:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11817228
wrong traffic ?
Or could the circling approach from 01 to 33 also be a factor with the helo misinterpreting the CRJ flight path and somehow losing sight ? The track of both aircraft is interesting… helo seems to initially be parallel to the river bank and turns 40 right. Why ? Was their destination the same airport or was that manoeuvre related to traffic avoidance or loss of visual ?
All guesswork I know… putting Special VFR traffic so close to final approach traffic at night clearly a problem. Tragic.
Or could the circling approach from 01 to 33 also be a factor with the helo misinterpreting the CRJ flight path and somehow losing sight ? The track of both aircraft is interesting… helo seems to initially be parallel to the river bank and turns 40 right. Why ? Was their destination the same airport or was that manoeuvre related to traffic avoidance or loss of visual ?
All guesswork I know… putting Special VFR traffic so close to final approach traffic at night clearly a problem. Tragic.
The golf course is on a peninsula in the river, so the helicopter was flying over water before and after it made the two turns.
Subjects
CRJ
Circle to Land (Deviate to RWY 33)
VFR
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January 30, 2025, 14:32:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11817282
The track in your image is not an accurate representation of PAT25s actual flight path. The leaked ATC radar track
here
and the VASAviation recreation
here
are more representative. There was no sharp RH turn to cross over the Potomac Park golf courses, it was a gentle RH turn to follow the published Route 1 to Route 4 helicopter transition around DCA.
You could contact them if you want and tell them it\x92s wrong. No offense intended.
Even if it wasn\x92t a sharp turn, it was done over a golf course and their flight path was probably dictated by noise abatement reasons, as are those flown by jets flying into DCA.
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ATC
DCA
Radar
Route 4
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January 30, 2025, 16:48:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11817397
Subjects: None
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January 30, 2025, 23:25:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11817757
no, all the local noise abatement procs are viewable online and that's not list that's. Hanes Point golf is not a gated course community or anything it's a muni golf course on national park land that's both run-down and charmingly relaxed place, but there's no residences, or anything living thing at night- just a big empty parking lot around there, and to the east is DoD property
Who cares if it is a municipal golf course or not, because nobody is going to play golf at around 8:40 PM in the dark of night.
My point was that helicopters might fly over it because nobody would care about the noise, and people in residential neighborhoods do, whether the residential neighborhoods are officially listed as a noise abatement areas or not.
https://www.flyreagan.com/about-airp...raft-noise-faq
At Reagan National, a key FAA strategy for limiting aircraft noise exposure over the broader region is to maximize aircraft movements over water and minimize aircraft movements over more densely populated communities. Since the FAA typically routes flights over the Potomac and Anacostia Rivers, many of the noise monitor locations are positioned along the river corridors.
Last edited by visibility3miles; 31st January 2025 at 01:39 .
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FAA
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January 31, 2025, 16:06:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11818320
Note/apologies to moderators: As a private pilot who doesn’t even fly anymore, I normally wouldn’t contribute to a thread like this, but I live in the great Washington, DC, area, so I know what the weather was like (very clear, visibility 26 miles, low wind, warming up after a very cold cold snap, the ice on the river was breaking up..) I’ve been to Hains point and the park across the river due south of the airport, as well as flying in and out of DCA as a pax, etc., etc.
BTW, the Potomac River is subject to sea tides by the airport, so that can’t help in the recovery, plus it was carrying a lot of melted snow at the time, adding to the cold and volume.
It’s been on the news 24/7 around here.
Anyway, there are a few stories in the Washington Post that might be of interest, or completely irrelevant:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md...eagan-airport/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md...potomac-river/
P.S., Apparently the helicopter controller had to leave early that evening, but it was considered a slow time, so was allowed without someone else being called in.
BTW, the Potomac River is subject to sea tides by the airport, so that can’t help in the recovery, plus it was carrying a lot of melted snow at the time, adding to the cold and volume.
It’s been on the news 24/7 around here.
Anyway, there are a few stories in the Washington Post that might be of interest, or completely irrelevant:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md...eagan-airport/
Ari Schulman, a reporter in D.C., was driving home to Alexandria along the George Washington Memorial Parkway — which passes
Reagan National Airport
— when he said he witnessed an explosion that he now believes was
the plane and helicopter that collided
Wednesday.
Schulman said he saw sparks spreading along the plane, nose to tail, as the aircraft banked sharply to the right.
“I couldn’t make sense of what I saw because it didn’t seem like they were coming directly out of the plane,” Schulman said. “They were underneath its belly and separated a little distance.” Schulman, who said he has reported on plane crashes but never seen one up close, was shaken by the experience. “I pray that there are many survivors,” he said.
He shared a detailed description of what he saw on X
Schulman said he saw sparks spreading along the plane, nose to tail, as the aircraft banked sharply to the right.
“I couldn’t make sense of what I saw because it didn’t seem like they were coming directly out of the plane,” Schulman said. “They were underneath its belly and separated a little distance.” Schulman, who said he has reported on plane crashes but never seen one up close, was shaken by the experience. “I pray that there are many survivors,” he said.
He shared a detailed description of what he saw on X
Two of Reagan National Airport’s air traffic controllers were doing double duty Wednesday night.
… On Wednesday evening, the position of helicopter controller — a role typically staffed until 9:30 p.m. — had been combined ahead of the crash with that of local controller, according to the report. Doubling up those roles can create challenges for an air traffic controller, especially if the airspace is busy. The roles use different radio frequencies, and airplane pilots and helicopter pilots cannot necessarily hear each other even if they’re both in touch with the tower.
… On Wednesday evening, the position of helicopter controller — a role typically staffed until 9:30 p.m. — had been combined ahead of the crash with that of local controller, according to the report. Doubling up those roles can create challenges for an air traffic controller, especially if the airspace is busy. The roles use different radio frequencies, and airplane pilots and helicopter pilots cannot necessarily hear each other even if they’re both in touch with the tower.
Subjects
ATC
DCA
Thread Moderation
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February 03, 2025, 12:44:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11820506
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md...ues-point-dei/
Plane extraction from Potomac River set to begin on Monday…
Crews are set to begin lifting a catastrophically damaged American Airlines regional jet from the bottom of the Potomac River in Washington on Monday, five days after the plane and an Army helicopter collided in a fiery crash that left no survivors .
What’s left of the plane will be carefully brought to the surface with the help of Navy salvage experts and specialized dive teams who have been rehearsing the effort, according to Col. Francis Pera, the Baltimore district commander for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which is helping oversee the work.
The Army Corps said the process could take three days to complete. The aircraft will be hoisted out of the water with a crane and onto a barge, then covered by a large tent, providing “full discretion” for human remains that may still be on board, Pera said.
Crews are set to begin lifting a catastrophically damaged American Airlines regional jet from the bottom of the Potomac River in Washington on Monday, five days after the plane and an Army helicopter collided in a fiery crash that left no survivors .
What’s left of the plane will be carefully brought to the surface with the help of Navy salvage experts and specialized dive teams who have been rehearsing the effort, according to Col. Francis Pera, the Baltimore district commander for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which is helping oversee the work.
The Army Corps said the process could take three days to complete. The aircraft will be hoisted out of the water with a crane and onto a barge, then covered by a large tent, providing “full discretion” for human remains that may still be on board, Pera said.
Work to pull out wreckage of the Black Hawk helicopter would follow, with completion of “large lifts” expected around Feb. 8, according to an estimated timeline. Crews will then work to clear other large crash-related debris elsewhere in the river, with a goal of “demobilizing” the salvage equipment authorities have rushed to the site by Feb. 12, according to the Army Corps.
The FAA also
said Sunday
that a system for sending safety alerts to pilots was operational after an outage that began Saturday evening. The FAA said a backup plan was in place while the alert system, known as NOTAM, was temporarily out. It is investigating the cause of the outage.
Last edited by visibility3miles; 3rd February 2025 at 13:00 . Reason: Adding quote about NOTAM
Subjects
Blackhawk (H-60)
DCA
FAA
NTSB
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April 20, 2025, 18:01:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11870642
https://media.istockphoto.com/id/125...gcSoTmRDpMdzk=
Subjects
See and Avoid
Traffic in Sight
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April 27, 2025, 12:51:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11874368
Missteps, Equipment Problems and a Common but Risky Practice Led to a Fatal Crash
New details revealed by The Times show that the failures on Jan. 29 before an Army helicopter crashed into a jet near Reagan National Airport were far more complex than previously known.https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/27/b...smid=url-share
Subjects: None
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