Posts about: "Action slip" [Posts: 61 Pages: 4]

JustusW
July 17, 2025, 17:30:00 GMT
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Post: 11924533
Originally Posted by BrogulT
And (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe you've dismissed the notion of hiding the suicide and making it appear to be an accident, murder, someone elses fault, etc. I think that notion might be more common than you would think (after all if they are successful you wouldn't know...) and probably reflects a significantly different sort of mental issue. A depressed narcissist? IDK.
I fear we could discuss comorbidities until we're blue in the face. But no, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of it being suicide, no. I just consider it to require any kind of actual prove instead of prove by the inability to come up with better explanations. As for the topic of concealment: It's obviously a grey area but the previously quoted 10-30% prevalence is based on studies trying to figure out exactly that. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable opining on that number.

Originally Posted by BrogulT
IDK whether you've addressed this earlier, but I'd point out that people with suicidal thoughts are often indecisive .
Originally Posted by ferry pilot
Suicide is often impulsive. A sudden, unplanned leap from a balcony, bridge or precipice is a single motion with almost guaranteed terminal result. Unfortunately an airplane in the hands of a depressed or mentally unstable pilot can also be a single, impulsive motion away from instant, painless death. As demonstrated, a couple of flicked switches and a very short wait.
Unlike previous pilot suicides that took deliberation and often aggressive action, this appears to be a passive event that could have been conceived and executed in the same impulsive instant. Followed almost immediately by regret, denial and even a futile attempt at reversal.
Originally Posted by za9ra22
There's lots, psychologically speaking, wrong with this scenario too. I'd be much more convinced that this was an impulsive act or a psychotic one than that it was a planned suicide, meant to happen this way.
Suicidal ideation does frequently present with both imagined as well as examined scenarios. Especially in more severe cases many victims have a history of attempts. The impulsive variants are typically in lesser severities of depression and are actually more common in people with lower levels of suicidal ideation. It would certainly be the most likely scenario for a suicide that I could come up with. It's especially prone to happen in cases with sudden traumatic events on top of an existing baseline condition but can occur in any other condition as far as I know. It would also fit somewhat with an unremarkable history as a person suffering from mild to moderate depression might consider being able to cope on his or her own. And then obviously be less prepared for a spontaneous urge. The troubling part here is that it would be indistinguishable from an action slip without additional evidence as to the pilots state of mind. The observable scenario would be something like this: Immediately upon reaching v2 the Captain moves both fuel cutoff switches to their off state in quick succession. When queried by the FO he denies having done so and remains passive until impact.

This is a plausible scenario, but also one that would be impossible to determine causally. Try for yourself, but you can use either rationalization for the behavior and even use the same rationalization for the opposite behavior. There is no way to predict how anyone would react in that situation and no way to determine either way what that behavior indicates. Not even moving those switches back into the on position by himself would give a reliable clue as to his state of mind. The report would probably default to Human Error in this case, as the intent could not be determined.
The resulting suggestions, ironically, would be basically the same as well. Ease access to mental healthcare, improve training for avoidance, and most importantly: Improve resilience of systems against this type of action.

Based on the numbers available to us right now I can almost guarantee that if you have taken more than 10 flights in your life one or both of your pilots or colleagues on the other seat suffered from symptoms of moderate to severe depression. And you will with almost absolute certainty never actually know. The true question people need to ask themselves is "Do I want my depressed pilot to have access to psychotherapy or not?"