June 12, 2025, 12:34:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11899162
For an aircraft that will likely have TOGA pressed and be at a high power setting (plus the RAT deployed) it sounds awfully quiet.
Perhaps the gear was down because they knew they were going to force land due to lack of thrust.
(Only a 738 driver), but the electric pumps to drive the hydraulics is much slower than the engine driven pumps and so flap selection / re-selection could be not as expected.
RIP to all involved.
Perhaps the gear was down because they knew they were going to force land due to lack of thrust.
(Only a 738 driver), but the electric pumps to drive the hydraulics is much slower than the engine driven pumps and so flap selection / re-selection could be not as expected.
RIP to all involved.
The 787 has 2x Enhanced Airborne Flight Recorders (EAFR), which each record both cockpit voice and flight data.
Hopefully flight data is not going to be an issue for this investigation.
It's also maybe visible in a few stills (e.g. post 64).
Last edited by Someone Somewhere; 14th June 2025 at 06:01 .
June 12, 2025, 21:21:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11899746
Very sad day, let’s hope that the investigation is thorough and lacking any “political” or “cultural” interference, the aircraft sounded very quiet to me on the video…but it’s just a video, the DFDR and CVR should reveal all.
June 12, 2025, 21:26:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11899753
What a profoundly disappointing thread. In my days at the cutting edge, sometimes working the kinds of events which make big headlines here, we’d sometimes sit in the bar, on day four or five, seldom sooner as it was so full-on, and joke about the garbage being posted here, and by then in more-or-less full knowledge of the facts. I don’t have that inside line anymore but I still understand its nature, its scope, its precision, its clarity.
Ladies and gentlemen, get a hobby. Go fishing, read books, arrange flowers, spot birds, do crosswords. All of those things have some purpose and deliver some sense of achievement. What’s happening here is just puerile, pointless, conjecture. It’s ill-informed, if I’m kind, and importantly it’s hugely damaging to the many bereaved folk who ARE READING THIS THREAD in the hope of enlightenment, and whose night terrors may be filled with your ramblings. To them I apologise, on behalf of the industry. I’m sorry you have to be confused by these things.
I am hopeful that the investigation team will have almost full comprehension in a few days, curtesy of the flight recorders. It would be wonderful if they shared it promptly, but I suspect we’ll wait at least two years, perhaps much more. For me, that’s the issue here, the investigatory world’s unwillingness to share facts.
Ladies and gentlemen, get a hobby. Go fishing, read books, arrange flowers, spot birds, do crosswords. All of those things have some purpose and deliver some sense of achievement. What’s happening here is just puerile, pointless, conjecture. It’s ill-informed, if I’m kind, and importantly it’s hugely damaging to the many bereaved folk who ARE READING THIS THREAD in the hope of enlightenment, and whose night terrors may be filled with your ramblings. To them I apologise, on behalf of the industry. I’m sorry you have to be confused by these things.
I am hopeful that the investigation team will have almost full comprehension in a few days, curtesy of the flight recorders. It would be wonderful if they shared it promptly, but I suspect we’ll wait at least two years, perhaps much more. For me, that’s the issue here, the investigatory world’s unwillingness to share facts.
June 12, 2025, 21:35:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11899759
What a profoundly disappointing thread. In my days at the cutting edge, sometimes working the kinds of events which make big headlines here, we\x92d sometimes sit in the bar, on day four or five, seldom sooner as it was so full-on, and joke about the garbage being posted here, and by then in more-or-less full knowledge of the facts. I don\x92t have that inside line anymore but I still understand its nature, its scope, its precision, its clarity.
Ladies and gentlemen, get a hobby. Go fishing, read books, arrange flowers, spot birds, do crosswords. All of those things have some purpose and deliver some sense of achievement. What\x92s happening here is just puerile, pointless, conjecture. It\x92s ill-informed, if I\x92m kind, and importantly it\x92s hugely damaging to the many bereaved folk who ARE READING THIS THREAD in the hope of enlightenment, and whose night terrors may be filled with your ramblings. To them I apologise, on behalf of the industry. I\x92m sorry you have to be confused by these things.
I am hopeful that the investigation team will have almost full comprehension in a few days, curtesy of the flight recorders. It would be wonderful if they shared it promptly, but I suspect we\x92ll wait at least two years, perhaps much more. For me, that\x92s the issue here, the investigatory world\x92s unwillingness to share facts.
Ladies and gentlemen, get a hobby. Go fishing, read books, arrange flowers, spot birds, do crosswords. All of those things have some purpose and deliver some sense of achievement. What\x92s happening here is just puerile, pointless, conjecture. It\x92s ill-informed, if I\x92m kind, and importantly it\x92s hugely damaging to the many bereaved folk who ARE READING THIS THREAD in the hope of enlightenment, and whose night terrors may be filled with your ramblings. To them I apologise, on behalf of the industry. I\x92m sorry you have to be confused by these things.
I am hopeful that the investigation team will have almost full comprehension in a few days, curtesy of the flight recorders. It would be wonderful if they shared it promptly, but I suspect we\x92ll wait at least two years, perhaps much more. For me, that\x92s the issue here, the investigatory world\x92s unwillingness to share facts.
RIP. Very sad day.
Thank you to the mods for clearing out the junk. (I presume you do it for free?)
June 12, 2025, 23:38:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11899838
What a profoundly disappointing thread. In my days at the cutting edge, sometimes working the kinds of events which make big headlines here, we\x92d sometimes sit in the bar, on day four or five, seldom sooner as it was so full-on, and joke about the garbage being posted here, and by then in more-or-less full knowledge of the facts. I don\x92t have that inside line anymore but I still understand its nature, its scope, its precision, its clarity.
Ladies and gentlemen, get a hobby. Go fishing, read books, arrange flowers, spot birds, do crosswords. All of those things have some purpose and deliver some sense of achievement. What\x92s happening here is just puerile, pointless, conjecture. It\x92s ill-informed, if I\x92m kind, and importantly it\x92s hugely damaging to the many bereaved folk who ARE READING THIS THREAD in the hope of enlightenment, and whose night terrors may be filled with your ramblings. To them I apologise, on behalf of the industry. I\x92m sorry you have to be confused by these things.
I am hopeful that the investigation team will have almost full comprehension in a few days, curtesy of the flight recorders. It would be wonderful if they shared it promptly, but I suspect we\x92ll wait at least two years, perhaps much more. For me, that\x92s the issue here, the investigatory world\x92s unwillingness to share facts.
Ladies and gentlemen, get a hobby. Go fishing, read books, arrange flowers, spot birds, do crosswords. All of those things have some purpose and deliver some sense of achievement. What\x92s happening here is just puerile, pointless, conjecture. It\x92s ill-informed, if I\x92m kind, and importantly it\x92s hugely damaging to the many bereaved folk who ARE READING THIS THREAD in the hope of enlightenment, and whose night terrors may be filled with your ramblings. To them I apologise, on behalf of the industry. I\x92m sorry you have to be confused by these things.
I am hopeful that the investigation team will have almost full comprehension in a few days, curtesy of the flight recorders. It would be wonderful if they shared it promptly, but I suspect we\x92ll wait at least two years, perhaps much more. For me, that\x92s the issue here, the investigatory world\x92s unwillingness to share facts.
Get off your high horse; as sad as the posts may be it is a RUMOUR network! I think there\x92s an awful lot of nonsense posted here but people are ENTITLED to speculate. Unless of course you believe in an Orwellian World🙄🙄
June 13, 2025, 11:17:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900370
AFAIK , both the NTSB and UK AAIB are by now onsite to assist the investigation at the request of the Indian AIB. The suggestion that they wouldn't notice, or would be party to, funny business with the flight recorders is ridiculous.
June 13, 2025, 11:37:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900392
I think the word you are looking for is "inconceivable".
AFAIK , both the NTSB and UK AAIB are by now onsite to assist the investigation at the request of the Indian AIB. The suggestion that they wouldn't notice, or would be party to, funny business with the flight recorders is ridiculous.
AFAIK , both the NTSB and UK AAIB are by now onsite to assist the investigation at the request of the Indian AIB. The suggestion that they wouldn't notice, or would be party to, funny business with the flight recorders is ridiculous.
June 13, 2025, 12:16:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900431
Last edited by pug; 13th June 2025 at 12:52 .
June 13, 2025, 12:47:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900477
June 13, 2025, 13:28:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900521
Having experience of many crash sites over a long career, taking off without flaps with the config horn/ warning blaring (or not if u/s) is a possibility Also selecting flaps up, instead of gear up at the positive rate of climb call, is also not unheard of and has happened. Both engines failing/ losing power at rotation/ initial climb out would be extremely rare, but not impossible. With the descent and lack of climb clear, unless a mistake of retracting flaps instead of gear, why wasn't the gear selected up as dragging that around is only going to end one way.
he sound from the well documented video would suggest the engines were running, but were certainly not selected to TOGA/ full power which you might expect when faced with high buildings growing larger in the windshield.
Due to the tail section being relatively intact, the CVR/ DFDR will be downloaded very soon, if not already, so we will all know shortly....
he sound from the well documented video would suggest the engines were running, but were certainly not selected to TOGA/ full power which you might expect when faced with high buildings growing larger in the windshield.
Due to the tail section being relatively intact, the CVR/ DFDR will be downloaded very soon, if not already, so we will all know shortly....
June 13, 2025, 17:04:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900697
The nose gear angle suggest that the "gear-up" was selected and a dual engine failure happened at the same time, with the hydraulics failing and possible RAT deployment.. The APU was not running and everything, except the flight recorders, might be powered down and restarted at a very low altitude.
Very scary.
Very scary.
June 13, 2025, 17:33:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900724
Bit surprising that we don't have confirmation of the 2nd FDR recovery by now, especially with the seemgly realtively intact tail section. The
DFDR was reportedly recovered from this rooftop:
The CVR can't far away and muss be a rather high priority search item.
Interdentally I have read some reports mentioning a DVR (Digital VIDEO recorder). Is AI fitting such devices in their aircrafts ?
DFDR was reportedly recovered from this rooftop:
The CVR can't far away and muss be a rather high priority search item.
Interdentally I have read some reports mentioning a DVR (Digital VIDEO recorder). Is AI fitting such devices in their aircrafts ?
June 13, 2025, 17:47:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900737
Are the FDR and CVR not combined in the 787? (One in the front and one in the tail, but recording the same info??)
Last edited by Return_2_Stand; 13th June 2025 at 17:58 .
June 13, 2025, 18:47:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900797
But the 787 was equipped with two redundant recorders. One in the aft, one in the front compartment. Both record identical data. If one of them was found in usable condition, then they're good. It will already have all the data they need.
June 13, 2025, 21:03:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900901
Personally I don't hear much of the engines as the plane moves away from the cameraperson in the phone video, while the sound of impact is clearly discernible. If anyone can hear the engines well enough to tell if there is a significant change in their tone or volume, that would be valuable info, I think. Alternatively whatever increase in noise was heard started before the recording starts. In that case I suppose the "RAT theorists" would say it was the droning of the now-deployed RAT, with the assumption that it would be audible from inside the cabin (things like flap and landing gear actuation certainly are, so that isn't all that far-fetched). On the other hand, the "flap theorists" would probably say it was the crew firewalling the thrust levers in response to the inability to climb, which isn't far-fetched either.
Either way we will know soon enough what actions the pilots did or didn't take, since the various flight recorders should be found fairly easily in good condition.
June 13, 2025, 21:31:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900927
In the spirit of fairness there is another sensation that can be interpreted as "increased thrust" that a passenger is equally if not more likely to be talking about
: a change in [perceived] engine noise level and/or quality.
Personally I don't hear much of the engines as the plane moves away from the cameraperson in the phone video, while the sound of impact is clearly discernible. If anyone can hear the engines well enough to tell if there is a significant change in their tone or volume, that would be valuable info, I think. Alternatively whatever increase in noise was heard started before the recording starts. In that case I suppose the "RAT theorists" would say it was the droning of the now-deployed RAT, with the assumption that it would be audible from inside the cabin (things like flap and landing gear actuation certainly are, so that isn't all that far-fetched). On the other hand, the "flap theorists" would probably say it was the crew firewalling the thrust levers in response to the inability to climb, which isn't far-fetched either.
Either way we will know soon enough what actions the pilots did or didn't take, since the various flight recorders should be found fairly easily in good condition.
Personally I don't hear much of the engines as the plane moves away from the cameraperson in the phone video, while the sound of impact is clearly discernible. If anyone can hear the engines well enough to tell if there is a significant change in their tone or volume, that would be valuable info, I think. Alternatively whatever increase in noise was heard started before the recording starts. In that case I suppose the "RAT theorists" would say it was the droning of the now-deployed RAT, with the assumption that it would be audible from inside the cabin (things like flap and landing gear actuation certainly are, so that isn't all that far-fetched). On the other hand, the "flap theorists" would probably say it was the crew firewalling the thrust levers in response to the inability to climb, which isn't far-fetched either.
Either way we will know soon enough what actions the pilots did or didn't take, since the various flight recorders should be found fairly easily in good condition.
June 13, 2025, 21:56:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900953
The recordings are simply of too low quality to draw any conclusions from.
If it was dual engine failure shortly after rotation, that is very bad luck and I doubt any crew could recover from something like that.
I could speculate further but I think it\x92s just too hard to say without better quality footage or FDR data.
If it was dual engine failure shortly after rotation, that is very bad luck and I doubt any crew could recover from something like that.
I could speculate further but I think it\x92s just too hard to say without better quality footage or FDR data.
Reports say that one of the black boxes have been recovered and the search continues for the other one. Apparently the B787 flight recorders log voice as well as data so only one is suffice if not damaged.
June 14, 2025, 08:00:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11901227
As much as it's been interesting to read the many weird and wonderful theories, i think everyone should hold on, specially when making assumptions about the professional flight crew and maintenance engineers. The flight recorder readouts and flight deck voice recorder (whatever they are called on the 787) will 100% explain the events leading up to the tragedy. Hopefully the thorough investigations and findings will be transparent and lessons learned are immediately put in to effect.
June 14, 2025, 16:33:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11901629
June 15, 2025, 03:40:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11902077
Two weeks is likely long enough for the investigators to determine if a systems failure might, in any way, have been a possible cause. I am sure that if there is any reason to suspect that a systems failure may have been a probable cause, or even contributed in any way to the accident, Boeing, GE, the FAA, or the Indian DGAC will promptly advise 787 operators.