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Ash Ghinn
June 12, 2025, 14:06:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899247 |
"On 12th June, 2025, Air India B787 Aircraft VT-ANB, while operating flight AI-171 from Ahmedabad to Gatwick, crashed immediately after takeoff from Ahmedabad. There were 242 people on board the aircraft, consisting of 2 pilots and 10 cabin crew," said a senior DGCA official.
The aircraft was under the command of Captain Sumeet Sabharwal with First Officer Clive Kundar. Captain Sumeet Sabharwal is an LTC with 8200 hours of experience. The copilot had 1100 hours of flying experience, the official further added. The officers gave a mayday call to ATC minutes after taking off. However, they didn't respond to ATC's reply. |
a3twenty
June 13, 2025, 05:07:00 GMT permalink Post: 11900000 |
Not trying to drift the thread away but the 8300 hours being quoted is apparently incorrect and is taken from the relatively new DGCA online database which requires pilots to upload their hours post 2019. None of the pilots have bothered filling up their entire logbooks prior to that. The operating captain was on the Airbus 310 fleet in air India, which probably dates back to him being in the company since the 90s
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akaSylvia
June 13, 2025, 11:15:00 GMT permalink Post: 11900369 |
https://www.businesstoday.in/india/s...142-2025-06-12 However, I can't find any reference of the specifics of the distress call or any evidence that they said they were suffering a lack of power. |
appruser
June 13, 2025, 19:02:00 GMT permalink Post: 11900816 |
Although the gear bogie isn\x92t in the initial post-liftoff position, if you can see the retraction mechanism operating in a 787 It first tilts the bogie forward. I\x92d therefore consider that a \x93gear up\x94 switch was activated but the action failed \x97most likely due to hydraulic pressure loss. In the second video (left-side view), I could interpret that gear retraction begins around 24 s and then halts before 27 s, exactly when the aircraft stops climbing.
Just my two cents, from the perspective of an aircraft engineer with a background primarily in Airbus.​​ |
Icarus2001
June 14, 2025, 05:46:00 GMT permalink Post: 11901148 |
I see that the India DGCA has gone in early with some narrative guidance and also some corporate bum steel plating.
DGCA requires inspections on all B787 aircraft before they leave India, various disparate systems, even so far as the cabin pressurisation system. Yep, that would cause a crash a minute after take off. They are carefully showing that they are DOING something even if it is mostly meaningless and more importantly they are sowing the seeds of doubt in the aircraft. This accident could not possibly be due to the action or inaction of DGCA licenced pilots. Strong move. |
Icarus2001
June 15, 2025, 05:37:00 GMT permalink Post: 11902119 |
No evidence of RAT deployment from a poor image - There absolutely is, you're not following fully I'm afraid. There's a brilliant video by Juan Brown where he compares the sound of the plane passing with that of an American 787 on final with the RAT deployed. Identical sound
I tell you what I am watching closely, the words and subtle meaning in the press conference of Civil Aviation Minister, Shri Ram Mohan Naidu, who has set up a “special high level committee” to oversee the investigation of this “incident. A little odd given they have the DGCA and AAIB in place, dont you think? He indicates they are to report within three months. It is now 48 hours since the EAFR was recovered. A small group of people know the answer NOW. |
OldnGrounded
June 16, 2025, 01:40:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903037 |
This has just appeared in the Times (of London) which is usually one of the most reliable sources of information in the UK.
"A loss of engine power is emerging as the most likely cause of the crash of the Air India Boeing that killed at least 279 people at Ahmedabad on Thursday. The Boeing 787-8 series appeared to have suffered from lower than normal thrust from its General Electric GEnx engines as it took off and failed to climb more than 450ft before crashing, video and reports from the Indian authorities have indicated.The new information has eclipsed an early focus on the unusual configuration of the aircraft\x92s wing flaps and landing gear." https://www.thetimes.com/world/asia/...rash-vhqw6b7v3 (subscription required to read the article) And it quotes Juan Browne (Blancolirio): \x93There was something terribly wrong with this 787 jet and we need to find out really quickly what went wrong because we\x92ve got a thousand of these operating today and operators need to find out what happened.\x94 |
Pip_Pip
June 16, 2025, 03:08:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903073 |
Times (of London).
"A loss of engine power is emerging as the most likely cause of the crash of the Air India Boeing that killed at least 279 people at Ahmedabad on Thursday. The Boeing 787-8 series appeared to have suffered from lower than normal thrust from its General Electric GEnx engines as it took off and failed to climb more than 450ft before crashing, video and reports from the Indian authorities have indicated."
The story also says, "No cause has yet been identified for what would be an extremely rare power loss from both engines, but on Sunday the Indian civil air authority (DGCA) began urgent pre-flight inspections of fuel systems, electronic engine controls and other systems on Indian Boeing 787s."
And it quotes Juan Browne (Blancolirio): \x93There was something terribly wrong with this 787 jet and we need to find out really quickly what went wrong because we\x92ve got a thousand of these operating today and operators need to find out what happened.\x94 |
OldnGrounded
June 16, 2025, 03:41:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903083 |
Please, we really don't need any more snark in this thread. And your snark suggests that you may not understand the implications of the story cited in the posts you quoted.
That the Times reports, clearly based on information from official Indian sources, that loss of thrust in both engines was a key factor in this crash, and that DGCA has ordered urgent inspections of 787s because of preliminary findings of the investigation, is important news from one of the most responsible newspapers anywhere. And Juan Browne's urging quick action and citing the importance to the entire fleet and to aviation generally is also significant. He's a respected aviator many here pay serious attention to. |
WillowRun 6-3
June 16, 2025, 04:29:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903094 |
. . .
That the Times reports, clearly based on information from official Indian sources, that loss of thrust in both engines was a key factor in this crash, and that DGCA has ordered urgent inspections of 787s because of preliminary findings of the investigation, is important news from one of the most responsible newspapers anywhere. And Juan Browne's urging quick action and citing the importance to the entire fleet and to aviation generally is also significant. He's a respected aviator many here pay serious attention to. |
John Marsh
June 16, 2025, 05:55:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903119 |
The checks on the Indian 787 fleet are proceeding apace.
Hindustan Times
:
Twenty-two out of the total 34 Boeing 787 Dreamliner aircraft in the Indian fleet have been inspected, and “nothing alarming” has been found during the surveillance, officials familiar with the matter said on Sunday.
“Checks on 22 787s have been completed and nothing alarming was found during the surveillance” one of the officials said, adding that “the inspection on the remaining B787 may be completed by Monday”. /......../ The airline, on Saturday, said that it was in the process of completing the one-time safety checks directed by the Indian aviation regulator DGCA. “These checks are being carried out on the Boeing 787 fleet as they return to India, before being cleared for their next operations” it had said. These checks include inspection of fuel parameter monitoring and associated system checks, inspection of Cabin air compressor and associated systems, electronic engine control-system test, engine fuel driven actuator-operational test and oil system check, serviceability check of Hydraulic system and review of take-off parameters Last edited by John Marsh; 16th June 2025 at 05:57 . Reason: Tidying |
DaveReidUK
June 16, 2025, 06:35:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903140 |
Thanks for the heads up. The story also says, "No cause has yet been identified for what would be an extremely rare power loss from both engines, but on Sunday the Indian civil air authority (DGCA) began urgent pre-flight inspections of fuel systems, electronic engine controls and other systems on Indian Boeing 787s."
And it quotes Juan Browne (Blancolirio): \x93There was something terribly wrong with this 787 jet and we need to find out really quickly what went wrong because we\x92ve got a thousand of these operating today and operators need to find out what happened.\x94 "The [RAT] is not intended to provide enough power and controls for an aircraft to climb after take-off, merely to give minimum control for an emergency descent from altitude" |
a3twenty
June 13, 2025, 05:07:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903707 |
Not trying to drift the thread away but the 8300 hours being quoted is apparently incorrect and is taken from the relatively new DGCA online database which requires pilots to upload their hours post 2019. None of the pilots have bothered filling up their entire logbooks prior to that. The operating captain was on the Airbus 310 fleet in air India, which probably dates back to him being in the company since the 90s
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Airboard
June 13, 2025, 05:11:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903708 |
Not trying to drift the thread away but the 8300 hours being quoted is apparently incorrect and is taken from the relatively new DGCA online database which requires pilots to upload their hours post 2019. None of the pilots have bothered filling up their entire logbooks prior to that. The operating captain was on the Airbus 310 fleet in air India, which probably dates back to him being in the company since the 90s
So it could be less\x85.regardless yes it might not be a contributing factor. |
unworry
June 17, 2025, 06:40:00 GMT permalink Post: 11904005 |
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Musician
June 17, 2025, 09:56:00 GMT permalink Post: 11904155 |
Bird strike ruled out
It seems pretty unlikely that a bird strike that took out both of those
very big
engines simultaneously would not have been fairly obvious in ways that nearby observers (e.g., the crew, ATC, airport personnel?) would have noticed. Possible, of course, but I don't think we've seen any evidence that points in that direction.
Also, I expect the airport would've sent a car out to check the runway for evidence. Since we agree that the engine failure occurred near rotation, and that rotation occured well inside the runway ( see e.g. fdr here , or the granular ADS-B data), that car would've encountered a bloody mess, and we'd all know about it by now.
Also, for what it's worth, the
Times of London
June 15 story "
New clues point to engine failure for cause of Air India plane crash
" cited here in the closed thread includes this:
The Indian authorities indicated that a bird strike has been ruled out.
\x95 first, we have seen fake reports circulating; \x95 secondly, News18 rates badly on mediabiasfactcheck.com: "Launched in 2005, CNN-News18 (formerly CNN-IBN) is an English-language Indian news television channel based in India. We also rate them Questionable based on a poor fact-checking record with numerous false claims." That leads me to consider that this "exclusive" might be sloppy reporting based on a fake\x97I have no way to know whether it is legitimate or not. At this point, I feel we can only rely on information being official if it's published through an official website, or if there's independent reporting or a video clip from an official press briefing. I do believe the accident was not caused by an animal strike, for many reasons. But I wouldn't believe it based on unsourced reporting alone. |
pampel
June 17, 2025, 19:00:00 GMT permalink Post: 11904571 |
Air India have cancelled a few 787 flights as they work through the mandated safety checks.
From The Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uiry-continues The only reasonable takeaway is that this is further evidence that the crash was not caused by the pilots. |
scard08
June 18, 2025, 01:31:00 GMT permalink Post: 11904826 |
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gearlever
June 18, 2025, 14:31:00 GMT permalink Post: 11905295 |
On Jun 18th 2025 the DGCA stated, that the inspection of Air India's Dreamliners did not find any major safety deficiency. Aircraft and maintenance were found in compliance with existing safety standards."
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 18th June 2025 at 19:10 . Reason: Quote, not bold |
PC767
June 18, 2025, 15:31:00 GMT permalink Post: 11905336 |
"
On JUn 18th 2025 the DGCA stated, that the inspection of Air India's Dreamliners did not find any major safety deficiency. Aircraft and maintenance were found in compliance with existing safety standards."
https://avherald.com/h?article=528f27ec&opt=0 Does the statement imply that something noted on the crashed aircraft was not present on the remaining aircraft. If the investigative team are aware of what happened, are they also aware of why it happened. As noted elsewhere - surely far too soon to be certain. If they are not aware of the why or how, how can they be certain there are no safety deficiencies. Similarily, aircraft and maintainence comply with existing standards. It may well have been the case that existing standards were applied to the crashed aircraft. Does the statement imply that there was nothing wrong with either the Boeing aircraft or the Air India standards. What about the GE engines, are they considered part of the description of both aircraft and standards. Or was the entire exercise merely a PR wash which achieved nothing other than optics that 787s and Air India are safe because standards are being maintained and aeroplanes have no issues. I'm tempted to read nothing into the statement because it came from the DGCA rather than the AAIB of India. |