Posts about: "DGCA" [Posts: 35 Pages: 2]

DBYO
June 18, 2025, 16:29:00 GMT
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Post: 11905383
Fleet checks

Originally Posted by PC767
An interesting statement.

Does the statement imply that something noted on the crashed aircraft was not present on the remaining aircraft.

If the investigative team are aware of what happened, are they also aware of why it happened. As noted elsewhere - surely far too soon to be certain. If they are not aware of the why or how, how can they be certain there are no safety deficiencies.

Similarily, aircraft and maintainence comply with existing standards. It may well have been the case that existing standards were applied to the crashed aircraft. Does the statement imply that there was nothing wrong with either the Boeing aircraft or the Air India standards. What about the GE engines, are they considered part of the description of both aircraft and standards.

Or was the entire exercise merely a PR wash which achieved nothing other than optics that 787s and Air India are safe because standards are being maintained and aeroplanes have no issues.

I'm tempted to read nothing into the statement because it came from the DGCA rather than the AAIB of India.

It was surely a worthwhile exercise, whatever the outcome. It hasn\x92t come up trumps but it was at least possible that inspecting the other aircraft might have thrown up a clue to the crash.

It would be interesting to know whether the crashed aircraft was used for parts around the Covid slowdown and whether this was exceptional or whether other inspected aircraft were similarly treated.
John Marsh
June 19, 2025, 04:19:00 GMT
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Post: 11905709
Interview with Tata Group CEO

I have been able to access the video. Salient points from the CEO:

"This (particular) aircraft has a clean history."

"Right engine was a new engine, put in March 2025."

"Left engine last serviced in 2023." Due for servicing at end of 2025 [unclear/misspoke].

"Both the engine histories are clean."

"Both the pilots are exceptional pilots. The Captain...has more than 11,500h. FO has more than 3,400h."

No preliminary investigation by Air India. Must wait for the DGCA to investigate.

I will offer the audio . The safety & technical aspects are addressed from approx. 12 minutes in.
Musician
June 19, 2025, 04:40:00 GMT
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Post: 11905712
Air India Radar Altimeters are reported to be 5G-safe

Here's a source to (hopefully) put the 5G speculations to rest:

As 5G telecommunications technology rapidly expands, India's Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) has issued a directive requiring airlines to upgrade their aircraft's radio altimeters (RAs). This directive avoids potential interference between the new 5G telecommunications technology and the existing aviation equipment.

For example, Air India, a fleet comprising 39 % 787s and 777s, stated that retrofitting an RA is an overnight process that would not disrupt flight schedules. These models in Air India's fleet already possess the new RAs.


Source: https://simpleflying.com/indian-auth...eter-upgrades/ (and others)

Last edited by Musician; 19th June 2025 at 04:54 .
Kentut
June 20, 2025, 17:32:00 GMT
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Post: 11907152
Originally Posted by TWT
According to this BBC article (from 3hrs ago), the Indian AAIB is yet to decide if they'll send the recorders overseas ...
The Ministry of Civil Aviation has denied reports that the black boxes from the Air India plane crash are being sent overseas. The \x93Black Box Lab\x94 under India\x92s Civil Aviation Ministry is currently analysing the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder retrieved from the wreckage of the ill-fated Air India AI-171 flight. ( This must be the Rs 90 million allegedly state-of-the-art facility at Udaan Bhawan [ with the assistance of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited ], New Delhi which was ready on 9th April 2025 - shouldn't it be more appropriate for DGCA / MoCA to get needed expertise, if at all, to their Delhi facility ASAP ? ).

Source: business today June 19th
Icarus2001
June 21, 2025, 01:15:00 GMT
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Post: 11907429
so it's not clear who has primacy in the investigation any more.
I am not sure that is the case.

Under ICAO rules the AAIB has lead on this. It was an Indian registered aircraft that crashed in India, how could they not be?

The aviation minister ordered a “high level” investigation in to the accident. This is politics only.

NEW DELHI, June 15 (Xinhua) -- India's federal civil aviation minister Ram Mohan Naidu Kinjarapu Saturday said keeping in view the utmost seriousness of the incident, another high-level committee has been formed to probe the deadly plane crash in the western state of Gujarat.

The committee, according to Kinjarapu, will be headed by the home secretary and will submit its report in three months.
This will make the minister feel he has control of the investigation and the narrative, in reality the EAFR data will be leaked by whichever party is in the clear.
If the aviation minister understood his portfolio he would know that the AAIB and DGCA are the accountable and responsible agencies here.

Watch carefully.
AndyJS
June 21, 2025, 22:23:00 GMT
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Post: 11908114
Please delete if already posted. This is from Reuters.

"India's aviation watchdog has issued a warning to Air India for "repeated and serious violations" related to pilot duty scheduling and oversight, according to government directives reviewed by Reuters on Saturday.

The Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) directed Air India to remove three company executives from crew scheduling roles - a divisional vice president, a chief manager of crew scheduling and one planning executive - for lapses linked to flights from Bengaluru to London on May 16 and May 17 that exceeded the stipulated pilot flight time limit of 10 hours."

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/...gs-2025-06-21/
Icarus2001
June 22, 2025, 06:23:00 GMT
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Post: 11908302
Constructing ever more unlikely cascading failures to fit the very few known facts is unproductive.

Of more interest to me is the lack of word on the plan to interrogate the EAFR units. Where and when?

Also that the DGCA wants THREE managers removed from their positions at Air India. Unconnected to this accident however.


Imagine Qantas being told by CASA to do a similar thing, or BA by the CAA, amazing stuff.
compressor stall
June 22, 2025, 07:07:00 GMT
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Post: 11908309
Originally Posted by Icarus2001

Also that the DGCA wants THREE managers removed from their positions at Air India. Unconnected to this accident however.
Imagine Qantas being told by CASA to do a similar thing, or BA by the CAA, amazing stuff.
It's either 2 things....
1. That happens from time to time and its the way things are done in India and it's only newsworthy now by association (not causation), or
2. The DGCA need to be seen to be doing something, and that's some low hanging fruit in an otherwise vacuum of information.
Musician
June 22, 2025, 07:24:00 GMT
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Post: 11908318
Originally Posted by compressor stall
It's either 2 things....
1. That happens from time to time and its the way things are done in India and it's only newsworthy now by association (not causation), or
2. The DGCA need to be seen to be doing something, and that's some low hanging fruit in an otherwise vacuum of information.
3. The AAIB looked into crew rostering; this is a routine part of air accident investigations (maybe not in India? but they have NTSB and UK AAIB sitting in this time). The AAIB found irregularities; this is a safety issue, so they notified the DGCA. The DGCA would've told Air India, "we can pull your operator license over this, but we won't if you fire those responsible".

It's a speculation, but I'd be surprised if it didn't fit the facts.
Also, we can't draw any conclusions about the accident crew; the discovery could've been incidental, or the accident crew might be affected, but the investigation is ongoing, so that's not public yet. It will be in the report, perhaps in the preliminary report even. (I expect NTSB and UK AAIB insist on a preliminary report, but who knows.)
WillowRun 6-3
June 30, 2025, 16:43:00 GMT
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Post: 11913762
Considering the difficulties so far in determining cause(s) of this accident and the relatively scant infromation released by the investigating authorities, this news item about actions by the DGCA, which could turn out to be relevant, caught my eye. It was published in Aviation Daily, June 25, with a by-line of a senior air transport editor at AW&ST.

Indian aviation authorities have discovered a list of discrepancies while conducting an assessment of safety measures in the Indian aviation industry.

Two teams from the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) carried out surveillance during night and early morning hours at major airports, including those in Delhi and Mumbai. The surveillance order was issued on June 19, and the DGCA summarized its findings in a June 24 statement.

The assessment covered a wide range of areas such as flight operations, airworthiness, ramp safety, air traffic control, pre-flight medical evaluations and communication, navigation and surveillance systems. As part of this process, “ground activities and aircraft movements were closely monitored to check the compliance [with] regulatory requirements and to identify weak areas for improvement,” the DGCA said.

In one of the more notable findings, the DGCA observed multiple cases where “reported defects reappeared many times on the aircraft indicating the ineffective monitoring and inadequate rectification action.” However, the DGCA did not reveal details of the incidents, or the airline or aircraft involved.

Maintenance regulations or procedures were not followed correctly in some instances. Airport issues involved runway markings and lighting, ground vehicles and obstruction data.

All of the findings have been communicated to the operators concerned, and they must take corrective actions within seven days, the DGCA said. “This process of comprehensive surveillance will continue in the future to detect hazards in the system,” the agency said.
​​​​​​​[End of quotation, w/o any alterations]

With apologies if this drifts too far from the current exchanges on the thread.

Last edited by S.o.S.; 30th June 2025 at 16:54 . Reason: Clarify the quote.
Dani
July 14, 2025, 19:35:00 GMT
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Post: 11922444
Originally Posted by Mrshed
It is reasonable, I would say, that the investigators have largely ruled out the switches themselves or the electronics around them as a cause here.
If you think everything is said...

Breaking News:
On Jul 14th 2025 India's DGCA instructed airlines to check the fuel switches on the Boeing 787 and Boeing 737 aircraft as used by Air India Group, Indigo and Spicejet for possible disengagement of the fuel control switch locking feature according to the SAIB released by the FAA on Dec 17th 2018. The checks have to be completed by Jul 21st 2025.

Source: Avherald.com

Mrshed
July 14, 2025, 19:41:00 GMT
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Post: 11922448
Originally Posted by Dani
If you think everything is said...

Breaking News:
On Jul 14th 2025 India's DGCA instructed airlines to check the fuel switches on the Boeing 787 and Boeing 737 aircraft as used by Air India Group, Indigo and Spicejet for possible disengagement of the fuel control switch locking feature according to the SAIB released by the FAA on Dec 17th 2018. The checks have to be completed by Jul 21st 2025.

Source: Avherald.com




Interesting.

FWIW I don't think everything is said, and further elements may be uncovered - I just think the investigators have laid out pretty clearly areas they think are (and are not) likely causes when you read between the lines.

Incidentally the above smacks of optics to me following it being shared that air India had not performed these checks, and the associated speculation of cause, but that's just a theory 😉

Pip_Pip
July 14, 2025, 19:48:00 GMT
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Post: 11922457
I have been hesitating to ask, but I'd like to check whether something I spotted is significant. (I think it is probably NOT significant, but it does no harm to confirm this whilst there is little in the way of new information to discuss).

I believe all three sources are reliable and verified.

1. Aviation Daily, June 25: "the DGCA carried out surveillance... at major airports, including those in Delhi and Mumbai. The surveillance order was issued on June 19, and the DGCA summarized its findings in a June 24 statement.

\x93The assessment covered a wide range of areas such as flight operations, airworthiness, ramp safety, air traffic control, pre-flight medical evaluations and communication, navigation and surveillance systems."


The order was issued on June 19, a week after AI171, and could feasibly have been informed by initial findings from the investigation (though not from anything on the EAFRs, which were not downloaded until much later). However, the timeframe is so tight that I'm inclined to think the assessment was either (a) a complete coincidence, or (b) a reassurance exercise.

Question : is it standard to include a review of pre-flight medical evaluations in such an exercise? (I don't see why it wouldn't be).

2. PIB press release from the Ministry of Civil Aviation on 26 JUN 2025 1:17PM: "The [investigation] team, constituted as per international protocol, is led by DG AAIB, and includes an aviation medicine specialist , an ATC officer, and representatives from NTSB."

The very first team member mentioned is an aviation medicine specialist. This could be coincidence or due to any number of trivial reasons, e.g. alphabetical order by surname. Still, I remember raising an eyebrow at the time (several weeks ago, to be clear).

The Preliminary Report ( PR ) includes a much longer list of team members on page 5, whereas the aforementioned press release singles out three in particular. Relevant?

3. The PR implies that the Aviation Medicine Specialist and an Aviation Psychologist were both drafted in as supplementary Subject Matter Experts (alongside several others I should add) at some point after the original team had been established.

I expect this is a common occurrence, but is it universal ? Question: At what stage of an investigation would one typically pick up the phone to these particular SMEs (automatically on day one or as deemed necessary)?

Individually, the above observations seem mostly routine to me. Together, they strike me as little more than a coincidence, but still... Do those with experience of such investigations have a view on the drafting-in, and the disclosure, of these two SMEs within the first two weeks of an investigation?

Disclaimer: By setting out my sources and thought process in some detail, it may create the impression that I am pushing an agenda. I assure you I am not. I am merely trying to be unambiguous about the facts I am asking you to opine on.
nrunning24
July 14, 2025, 19:59:00 GMT
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Post: 11922466
Originally Posted by Dani
If you think everything is said...

Breaking News:
On Jul 14th 2025 India's DGCA instructed airlines to check the fuel switches on the Boeing 787 and Boeing 737 aircraft as used by Air India Group, Indigo and Spicejet for possible disengagement of the fuel control switch locking feature according to the SAIB released by the FAA on Dec 17th 2018. The checks have to be completed by Jul 21st 2025.

Source: Avherald.com
This also could be in the sake of thoroughness from the governing body, and frankly its low intrusiveness to the operation and can at least rule out random theorized possibilities. I would probably advise the same.

Realize this is a pilots forum, and its always easier to blame the engineers (me), but I'm surprised at the amount of people grasping at (at least what I think) straws to try and make this not a case of pilot error (either intentional or unintentional). I get lots of parts frequently break and pilots do frequently see things on MEL etc. I know our partner airline engineering teams would love to see increased reliability of certain components, but the certification scrutiny of flight critical items is very intense including isolation from each other.

The likelihood of two flight critical components which are isolated from each other failing instantaneously is so small its basically impossible. Especially when you consider they also turn back on 10 secs later.

Last edited by T28B; 14th July 2025 at 20:57 . Reason: pulled out the bottom line with formatting
LTC8K6
July 14, 2025, 20:51:00 GMT
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Post: 11922492
Originally Posted by Dani
If you think everything is said...

Breaking News:
On Jul 14th 2025 India's DGCA instructed airlines to check the fuel switches on the Boeing 787 and Boeing 737 aircraft as used by Air India Group, Indigo and Spicejet for possible disengagement of the fuel control switch locking feature according to the SAIB released by the FAA on Dec 17th 2018. The checks have to be completed by Jul 21st 2025.

Source: Avherald.com
A bit late to check them now, but I don't expect anything will be found on the 787s. They are just doing this to cover themselves, I think.