Page Links: First Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next Last Index Page
Musician
2025-06-17T10:51:00 permalink Post: 11904195 |
Enhanced Airborne Flight Recorder (EAFR)
Since it has been reported that the "FDR" was found, they also have the "CVR". 6 users liked this post. |
Lord Bracken
2025-06-17T18:13:00 permalink Post: 11904527 |
Absolutely. This confidence that the EAFR has already been read is misplaced. It\x92s a specialist piece of equipment and probably can\x92t even be downloaded in India. It\x92s most likely on its way to the NTSB, the BEA or the AAIB (UK) for analysis which will be done under strict conditions (for obvious reasons).
2 users liked this post. |
DIBO
2025-06-17T18:54:00 permalink Post: 11904567 |
Absolutely. This confidence that the EAFR has already been read is misplaced. It\x92s a specialist piece of equipment and probably can\x92t even be downloaded in India. It\x92s most likely on its way to the NTSB, the BEA or the AAIB (UK) for analysis which will be done under strict conditions (for obvious reasons).
An if they decide to do it locally, they will take their time (I hope) not to screw up their moment de gloire 5 users liked this post. |
DaveReidUK
2025-06-17T19:03:00 permalink Post: 11904575 |
Absolutely. This confidence that the EAFR has already been read is misplaced. It’s a specialist piece of equipment and probably can’t even be downloaded in India. It’s most likely on its way to the NTSB, the BEA or the AAIB (UK) for analysis which will be done under strict conditions (for obvious reasons).
Each is downloaded separately in pretty much the same way as always. 5 users liked this post. |
DaveReidUK
2025-06-17T20:00:00 permalink Post: 11904606 |
I was referring to CVR/FDRs in general being specialist equipment requiring specialist facilities to process. In any case, I would be very interested to find out where those from this accident are read. It appears from a post upthread there are new facilities in New Dehli that could be used. Having said that, for the EK 521 accident in Dubai the recorders were sent to the UK for analysis, despite a "flight data recorder centre" in Abu Dhabi being opened (again with much fanfare) by the UAE GCAA five years before the occurrence.
3 users liked this post. |
OldnGrounded
2025-06-17T20:23:00 permalink Post: 11904625 |
AAIB sets up flight recorders laboratory
New Delhi, Apr 9 (PTI) Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) has set up a flight recorders laboratory that will help it in carrying out more effective probes into accidents.
Civil Aviation Minister K Rammohan Naidu inaugurated the laboratory in the AAIB premises in the national capital on Wednesday. 2 users liked this post. |
Lord Bracken
2025-06-17T20:24:00 permalink Post: 11904626 |
I have no misgivings, I\x92m just challenging the assertion that because the recorders have been found, they have already been read. There\x92s any number of reasons why they may not have been read yet, in India or anywhere else.
1 user liked this post. |
DaveReidUK
2025-06-17T21:29:00 permalink Post: 11904679 |
the difference may lay in the content that was recorded and not so much the 2 identical EAFR's. Only the forward EAFR is connected to a dedicated backup battery (RIPS) which also provides backup power to the Cockpit Area Microphone. So in case of a major electrical power mishap, the forward - and likely (externally?) damaged - EAFR might be crucial for recovering all available CVRecordings. Hence the somewhat understandable split-up in news-reports, between FDR data (from the rear EAFR) and complete CVR recordings (from the forward).
If the aft EAFR ceased recording at the point (just short of the runway end) where the ADS-B and likely everything else went dark, then the extra 30 seconds of CVR recording from the forward recorder could well be crucial to the investigation. |
unworry
2025-06-17T21:35:00 permalink Post: 11904689 |
2 users liked this post. |
Gary Brown
2025-06-18T07:18:00 permalink Post: 11904984 |
Up above - apologies I can't find the post... - someone mentioned that the EAFRs
might
send data wirelessly..... Here's the GE "brochure" for the current EAFR (although I am not certain exactly which model would be on the subject aircraft):
https://www.geaerospace.com/sites/de...rder-3254F.pdf which is an interesting read on what EAFR can and can't (or at least, doesn't) do. It's clear - to me - from that document that wireless data transmission is not a feature of the EAFR. Basically, ethernet cable only. Some data acessible on the aircraft itself, some (CVR in particular) only available when the EAFR is in the lab. One thing I did not know is: The Image Recorder growth function is used to record visual images of the flight deck instruments, flight deck, the aircraft structures, and engines as required. The final two words of course mean that Air India 787s might, or might not, have that feature enabled. And indeed, it being called a "growth function" probably means "not currently implemented".... Last edited by Gary Brown; 18th Jun 2025 at 07:53 . Reason: Query on "growth function" meaning. 1 user liked this post. |
Semreh
2025-06-18T08:19:00 permalink Post: 11905017 |
1) Why would the Aft EAFR stop recording if the main battery were available? 2) The Aft EAFR has its own dedicated analogue connection from the CAM. Is it the case that other relevant audio streams are not generated and/or transported over the fibre-optic data network to the Aft EAFR when on (main) battery power alone? 1 user liked this post. |
Gary Brown
2025-06-19T09:20:00 permalink Post: 11905856 |
https://www.geaerospace.com/sites/de...rder-3254F.pdf The rear EAFR doesn't have power backup. So it will only record data (both CVR and FDR) while it has normal electrical power. At what point before impact that power was lost, we do not know. 2 users liked this post. |
Icarus2001
2025-06-19T09:21:00 permalink Post: 11905858 |
Air India plane crash: Black box of 787 Dreamliner to be sent to US for data recovery; ‘recorders sustained heavy damage…’
Seems a long while to wait to send it to the US.
would the logic have a brain fart and revert back to HOLD?
​​​​​​​
At what point before impact that power was lost, we do not know.
Someone made a radio call near the end of the flight, so some power was available. |
Icarus2001
2025-06-20T04:45:00 permalink Post: 11906589 |
it will likely require a forensic teardown of the control systems of the engine to determine what damage may have occurred before impact.
|
sabenaboy
2025-06-20T07:45:00 permalink Post: 11906669 |
"Both engines failed or shut off close to rotation" explains all of the evidence : it explains an unremarkable take-off roll, loss of lift, absence of pronounced yaw, loss of electrical power, loss of the ADS-B transponder, RAT deployment, the noise of the RAT banging into place and revving up, emergency signs lighting up, a possible mayday call reporting loss of thrust/power/lift, and a physically plausible glide from a little over 200 ft AAL to a crash site 50 feet (?) below aerodrome elevation. It explains what we saw on the videos, what the witness reported, where the aircraft ended up, and the ensuing sudden catastrophe. I don't believe we have evidence for anything else right now—I'd be happily corrected on that. The EAFR will tell the story, but the reason for the crash will always remain a "mystery" because the B787 was not equipped with EPTPR's! ( E nhanced P ilot's T hought P rocess R ecorders) I think AI171 will go down in history with MSR990 an MH370. ![]() |
xetroV
2025-06-20T08:09:00 permalink Post: 11906692 |
Do both EAFRs run on emergency power? Could it be possible that only ONE (if any) EAFR unit was recording after the supposed loss of thrust on both engines? If the other one is severely damaged we might as well end up with NO EAFR data from the critical last part of the flight. Perhaps both units are severely damaged? I’m not convinced your optimism is entirely warranted.
1 user liked this post. |
DaveReidUK
2025-06-20T08:54:00 permalink Post: 11906737 |
Do both EAFRs run on emergency power? Could it be possible that only ONE (if any) EAFR unit was recording after the supposed loss of thrust on both engines? If the other one is severely damaged we might as well end up with NO EAFR data from the critical last part of the flight. Perhaps both units are severely damaged? I\x92m not convinced your optimism is entirely warranted.
7 users liked this post. |
Icarus2001
2025-06-20T09:04:00 permalink Post: 11906745 |
Back in my commuter days more than one Captain at the layover hotel got a sudden call from ops that
left an RJ engine running
before they departed the airport
If the other one is severely damaged we might as well end up with NO EAFR data from the critical last part of the flight
The EAFR will soon tell us WHAT happened but perhaps not WHY just yet. 2 users liked this post. |
Capn Bloggs
2025-06-20T09:10:00 permalink Post: 11906753 |
Originally Posted by
Iccy
At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, the EAFR is designed to withstand a crash
The 787s recorder/s have obviously been damaged so much/missing data they are being taken to the US. 5 users liked this post. |
Musician
2025-06-20T09:15:00 permalink Post: 11906759 |
EAFR documentation
Do both EAFRs run on emergency power? Could it be possible that only ONE (if any) EAFR unit was recording after the supposed loss of thrust on both engines? If the other one is severely damaged we might as well end up with NO EAFR data from the critical last part of the flight. Perhaps both units are severely damaged? I\x92m not convinced your optimism is entirely warranted.
![]() The black rubber cap protects a multi-pin connector. ![]() The white cylinder is an underwater location transmitter. ![]() The forward EAFR has its own backup power. Source: https://www.geaerospace.com/sites/de...rder-3254F.pdf 7 users liked this post. |