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| Pilot DAR
July 20, 2025, 16:52:00 GMT permalink Post: 11925881 |
This article has been referred to the moderation team by one of our members:
https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/...163850.article Its headline is: NTSB chair aligns with Indian investigators in criticising media coverage of the Air India 787 disasterPilot DAR Subjects
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| Senior Pilot
July 20, 2025, 19:33:00 GMT permalink Post: 11925921 |
The full Flight Global article; those here who chose to put PPRuNe and themselves at risk of legal action by their accusations and emotive language may like to reflect and be more accurate in their contributions to this professional pilots forum in future.
US safety chief supports India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau in urging media to avoid ‘premature narratives’ about the 12 June disaster that killed 260 people
The head of the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has criticised recent news stories about the 12 June crash of an Air India Boeing 787-8, aligning with a statement from India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB). “Recent media reports on the Air India 171 crash are premature and speculative,” NTSB chair Jennifer Homendy said on 18 July. “India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau just released its preliminary report. Investigations of this magnitude take time.” Homendy does not specify which media reports she takes issue with. In recent days, The Wall Street Journal and Reuters, citing unnamed sources familiar with US officials’ assessment of evidence, reported that audio from the crashed jet’s cockpit voice recorder indicates the captain had moved the fuel control switches to the “CUTOFF” position. The reports said that the first officer was the pilot who asked why the switches had been moved. A source who is also familiar with aspects of the investigation confirms that information to FlightGlobal. Investigators have not released information to support such a scenario.
NTSB chair Jennifer Homendy warns against “speculative” media reports The 787-8 was operating flight 171 from Ahmedabad to London Gatwick airport. It crashed shortly after taking off, killing 241 of 242 people aboard and 19 people on the ground. The AAIB’s 11 July preliminary report said that about 3s after taking off, the two cockpit fuel control switches – each controls fuel to one of the jet’s two GE Aerospace GEnx turbofans – were switched to the “CUTOFF” position. The switch for the left-side engine moved first, with the right-side switch moving within about 1s. The turbofans then lost thrust. One of the two pilots – the report did not specify which – asked the other why he moved the switch; the other then denied doing so. Starting 10s after the switches were set to “CUTOFF”, both were switched back to “RUN”, causing the turbofans to begin restarting, but not in time to prevent the jet from crashing. The 787’s flight data recorder noted the moment the actual physical switch moved to the “CUTOFF” position and then when it moved back to the “RUN” position, a source tells FlightGlobal. Those moments were plotted on a graph showing engine thrust falling off after the switches were moved to “CUTOFF”, and then returning after they were moved to “RUN”. Because that data reflects the physical movement of the switch, a loss of fuel caused by another problem elsewhere in the 787’s electrical system is unlikely, the source says. The Federal Aviation Administration on 11 July issued a Continued Airworthiness Notification to the International Community (CANIC) saying that the AAIB’s “investigation to date has found no urgent safety concerns related to the engines or airplane systems of the Boeing Model 787-8”. On 17 July, the AAIB issued an “Appeal”, saying, “It has come to our attention that certain sections of the international media are repeatedly attempting to draw conclusions through selective and unverified reporting”. “Such actions are irresponsible… We urge both the public and the media to refrain from spreading premature narratives that risk undermining the integrity of the investigative process,” it adds. “The AAIB appeals to all concerned to await publication of the final investigation report.” Citing that document, the NTSB’s Homendy said on 18 July, “We fully support the AAIB’s public appeal… and will continue to support its ongoing investigation”. The AAIB’s preliminary report also notes that the FAA issued a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin in December 2018 about a “locking feature” within fuel control switches on several Boeing models, including 787s. The locking feature is a safety device that requires the switches be lifted before being transitioned. It involves raised nubs that the switch must transition over.
A fuel control switch similar to that found on Boeing 787s, showing that the switch must transition over raised bumps That 2018 bulletin warned about potential “disengagement” of the locking feature, which could allow the switches to “be moved between the two positions without lifting”, potentially causing “inadvertent” engine shutdown. Though the FAA recommended inspections, its bulletin concluded that issue was “not an unsafe condition that would warrant airworthiness directive”. The FAA reiterated that position in its 11 July CANIC, saying the fuel control switch design does not pose “an unsafe condition”. Though the AAIB’s report cited the issue, it drew no link between it and the crash Subjects
AAIB (All)
Engine Failure (All)
Engine Shutdown
FAA
Fuel (All)
Fuel Cutoff Switches
GEnx (ALL)
NTSB
Preliminary Report
Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin
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| T28B
July 25, 2025, 15:53:00 GMT permalink Post: 11928262 |
https://aviationweek.com/air-transpo...N1000041876164
From the article by Guy Norris of Aviation Week... Air India 787 Crash Being Investigated As ‘Criminal Act,’ Says Safety Expert Guy Norris July 23, 2025
LAS VEGAS—India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) is now looking into the June 12 crash of an Air India
Boeing
787-8 as an intentional act, says
veteran safety consultant and former NTSB investigator Greg Feith
. The AAIB’s preliminary report on July 12 revealed that fuel cutoff switches for the 787’s two GE Aerospace GEnx-1B engines were transitioned from “run” to “cutoff” around three seconds after takeoff from Ahmedabad Airport. Although both fuel switches were turned back on within a further 14 sec., the aircraft was too low to recover and impacted trees and buildings, killing 241 of 242 occupants on the 787 and 19 on the ground.The AAIB has criticized subsequent western media reports as “irresponsible” for indicating the fuel cutoff switches were likely deliberately moved by one of the pilots.
However, Feith says: “It has become very apparent, especially now with information I know and what's come out about the cockpit voice recorder—where the question is heard ‘why did you cut off the fuel?’—[that] somebody had to have seen that action to make that statement. You just wouldn’t have a dual-engine failure.” Speaking at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics Aviation forum here in Las Vegas, Feith says: “Something had to prompt that type of comment. Now we get into the psychology part of it, and that's really where this investigation is going to go. “And oh, by the way, it's no longer an accident. It's investigated as a criminal event, just like EgyptAir, just like Germanwings, just like SilkAir. These are criminal events—intentional acts,” he adds, referring to three fatal crashes deemed to have been deliberately caused which occurred in 1999, 2015 and 1997 respectively. Feith, who participated in the investigation into the SilkAir crash—where a Boeing 737-300 traveling from Jakarta to Singapore was downed—says other theories continue to persist in the face of contradictory evidence provided by the AAIB. “To this day, people are still talking about this as a dual-engine failure, despite the fact that the AAIB came out with a preliminary report which gave some initial findings. They said at this stage of the investigation, there are no recommended actions for the 787-8 or the engines. They just exonerated the airplane. They just exonerated the engines.” “The junior investigators and the trolls are still making a big deal about engine failure, software issues, FADEC problems. They're not part of the process,” Feith continues. The AAIB “had a team of subject matter experts dissecting all of this in that 30-day period. You think they didn't look at that? It makes no logical sense,” he adds. “The fact is that now we have people all spooled up looking at the wrong thing instead of looking at, 'is this an isolated problem or a systemic event?' It's the first major accident for a brand-new airplane [type]. This is the kind of controversy that gets stirred up and distracts us from really looking at where we need to be and what we need to be doing to enhance aviation safety,” Feith says. Referencing the SilkAir accident, he says: “I've been down this road. I spent two years working on SilkAir in Palembang, Sumatra. I took a team of investigators over with me from Boeing and the engine manufacturer, the FAA and a variety of others, and we determined in concert with their National Transportation Safety Committee, that this was an intentional act.” Subjects
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Engine Failure (All)
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Fuel (All)
Fuel Cutoff
Fuel Cutoff Switches
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| Greaser732
November 08, 2025, 07:16:00 GMT permalink Post: 11985149 |
As always, it is just a matter of time.
The Indian equivalent of the NTSB have durastiction over the investigation process untill the final report is published.
Irrespective of how a culture works wrt. shifting blame around to prevent responsibility, Daddy in the form of the NTSB is going to file a separate report which is going to shine unwanted light in dark spaces. Discussions on this incident are DOA until that point. Subjects
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| WillowRun 6-3
November 28, 2025, 21:14:00 GMT permalink Post: 11997410 |
"We're back to this rubbish" ..... indeed, and because many folks in all manner of occupations and professions believe that most attorneys should justify busy themselves with taking the trash out, I'm going to try.
Reference is made to the series of posts above, starting with 1524 (Nov. 7) noting then-new legal developments in India, through 1533 (Nov. 7) in which Someone Somewhere included - very helpfully! - links to a lawsuit filed in India seeking an independent investigation and a "report" (so-called by its writer) entitled, "Flight [Air India] 171: Analyzing Electrical System Anomalies"; this so-called report was written by one Capt. Amit Singh and captioned with the name "Safety Matters Foundation" - Gurukul for Safety." I'm not taking the time to look up in some translation source whether Gurukul is a form of "Guru" which would place Capt. Singh on familiar terrain for the flower children in the 1967 Summer of Love . . . but I digress. In another post there is a link to a report by the BBC (Nov. 7, by Theo Leggett) in which it is noted that the India Supreme Court was "considering a petition" filed - in some process which I admit is entirely unclear to me - and that during some sort of preliminary process or hearing, one judge remarked, with reference to the petitioner's son, i.e., the Captain (PM), "nobody can blame him for anything." Now, why rehearse these crosss-references here? -- because I'm trying to find out if a comment I read earlier today on the Wall Street Journal website was accurate or not. That commenter, besides assailing the leaks of information from the investigation (and impliedly, the proliferation of screwball "analyses', possibly lofted into the ethersphere by Artificial Typing Pools) asserted that there probably have not been other instances where a properly constituted and convened Annex 13 accident panel was challenged in ligitation in the investigating country. If there are one or more such cases like the one filed in India which have proceeded somewhere else, oh boy would I have a guest lecture to pitch to certain Air and Space Law faculties. And similarly, precedent for a parent or anyone related to an aviator who perished in a civil aviation accident filing a petition seeking to exonerate their family member - has this ever been litigated at all, anywhere? And there's a second reason. I think it's no coincidence that the publishers of the Wall Street Journal decided that the time had come to go public with the reporting in the article currently on its website. I think I would get one hundred percent concurrence if I asked actual pro's on this forum whether Chairwoman Homendy proved herself to be a tough customer (sorry for the vernacular or slang but "no-nonsense" just isn't colorful, I mean lawyerly, enough) in how she conducted the DCA hearing a few months ago. In other words, it's entirely believable and reasonable to understand Chair Homendy taking pretty tight control over the activities of the U.S. parties in India as described in the article. And with rubbish reports circulating, time to get some perspective into the public domain. In fact, maybe I've got the timing backwards. Realizing the goings-on in India with NTSB and other U.S. representatives were going to be disclosed at some not-distant time, whatever this outfit "The Federal" really is, it tried to -- rubbish up the public discussion. One thing seems certain, though. With the newly-elected Chair of the ICAO Council taking office soon, and given that diplomats of Japan (with aviation matters portfolios) probably are pretty tough customers, i.e., no-nonsense, too, the fiasco which the AAIB process has become certainly will be lurking in the corridors in Montreal. Last edited by WillowRun 6-3; 28th November 2025 at 21:31 . Subjects
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| Pilot DAR
November 29, 2025, 20:18:00 GMT permalink Post: 11997917 |
Everything publicly recorded, reported, and speculated upon is in public domain.
So, be patient for the final report, and expect to see an appropriate amount of supporting information. If, after the final report has been issued, your qualified and experienced opinion is that the NTSB has been:
retaining in secret important evidence
Those harmed, and must be made whole,
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| wrench1
November 29, 2025, 21:28:00 GMT permalink Post: 11997946 |
And just to note on a comment about US airport ownership, outside of most military airports and 2 civilian airports in the DC area, all other airports are owned at the state or local levels, with a number considered private entities. For example, the Louisville airport (SDF) is owned and operated by a public corporation formed under state law which is common for most large hub airports in the US. Subjects
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AAIB (India)
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| LondonSpotter
December 05, 2025, 11:46:00 GMT permalink Post: 12000836 |
Benedict Smith US Reporter
02 December 2025 9:24pm GMT US officials fear Indian authorities are trying to cover up the deadly Air India Plane Crash which killed 260 people. Just one passenger survived when Flight 171 crashed seconds after taking off from Ahmedabad in western India in June, killing 241 traveller and crew, along with 19 people on the ground. US investigators believe the evidence points to Sumeet Sabharwal, the flight’s captain, deliberately crashing the plane, The Wall Street Journal reported. Data downloaded from the Boeing Dreamliner’s black box allegedly shows someone inside the cockpit moved the switches to cut off the engine’s fuel supply. The captain did not then attempt to raise the nose of the aircraft before the crash, the evidence reportedly shows. Some US officials fear the Indian government will seek to obstruct the findings and instead blame mechanical faults with the plane. However, Indian observers believe the US is overlooking flaws in American-made planes, although no Boeing Dreamliner has ever suffered a fatal crash before. India’s top court this month said Sabharwal was not to blame for the disaster. Sabharwal’s father has said his son has been the target of a “character assassination” despite his “unblemished 30-year career” as a pilot. The joint-investigation between India and the US, which is involved because the Boeing was manufactured in the US and approved by American safety regulators, has been marred by mutual suspicion between officials. GVG Yugandhar, who leads India’s aircraft accident investigation bureau, is said to have told US officials they were “not a third world country” and “can do anything you all can do”. Indian authorities are accused of failing to prioritise gathering and analysing data from the black box, although this has been disputed by a figure familiar with India’s investigation process. American investigators were banned from taking photos of the wreckage, some of which was moved before they could examine it, sources said. Two American black-box specialists who landed in New Delhi in June were warned not to accompany Indian authorities to a remote laboratory to analyse flight data and voice recorders from the cockpit. Jennifer Homendy, the chairman of the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), is said to have been worried about the safety of US personnel and equipment given the risk of terrorism or military conflict in the region. Indian officials had pushed to analyse the black box in the small town of Korwa, which they deemed better equipped and located away from media attention. Ms Homendy argued that authorities should download data from either their laboratory in New Delhi or work in the NTSB’s Washington facilities. In the end, Indian authorities agreed to analyse the data from the New Delhi site after the US threatened to pull their support from the investigation. Ms Homendy’s calls to her counterpart, Mr Yugandhar, for updates are said to have gone unanswered. Last edited by T28B; 5th December 2025 at 13:32 . Reason: Please use the quote function in the future, thank you, removed picture captions Subjects
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Fuel Cutoff Switches
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| ATC Watcher
December 06, 2025, 09:34:00 GMT permalink Post: 12001248 |
From what I understood from a US staff ,( second hand) indeed the whole US delegation ( not only NTSB) and the AAIB started on the wrong foot from the very beginning . Not sure who started , but looks like personalities involved did not match; Some believed they would be treated as equals while the others wanted to be sure to lead ,then suspicions of having different motives came up , etc.. The "risk to staff" to transfer to Korwa was just an excuse to make a point. , because , as Asturias 56 said , bringing the recorders there was logic for the AAIB . Politically it was not ., hence the mess they are in now.
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