AAKEE
August 06, 2025, 17:44:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11934272

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs

I cannot understand the almost paranoid desire to have all the information known about this prang spewed out by the investigators as soon as they get some. Why? What purpose would it serve apart from satisfying the apparently ghoulish desire of some?

We've got the preliminary report; hypothesise all you like but to expect more info is just being na\xefve.

Yes.

We have the preliminary. Lets hope the investigation people get the time and piece needed to produce a high quality report.

For that TV show I guess most people reading this thread will get no new facts.
For the speculation part I guess it is a higher risk of us sighing than hearing any news.

Subjects Preliminary Report

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Lonewolf_50
August 06, 2025, 18:23:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11934301

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs

I think you make an assumption in your last sentence, which is one that I do not make based on the inputs provided.

Subjects Preliminary Report

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za9ra22
August 08, 2025, 14:11:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11935237

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50

....What gets me, with the info I have available so far, is the reported delay in turning the fuel back on. This is a bit more striking given that the verbal challenge "why did you turn them off" got "I didn't" as a reply.
My experience with action slips is that "Ooh, sheet, moved the wrong thing, fix it!" is the more common reaction or behavior.

This strikes me as one of the most apposite of questions in this incident.

If we take it as read - which I do but some clearly don't - that the preliminary report contains all the pertinent details as known at the time it was written, then that delay is rather inexplicable. The absence of any reported further confrontation or verbal exchanges on the flight deck rather suggests the pilots were not sure what had happened.

Even if it is taken as read that one pilot was acting intentionally, unless their hand covered the switches - in which case surely there would be some audible action or demand by the other - it would not likely take that long to act and correct the problem.

Subjects Action slip Preliminary Report

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Musician
August 09, 2025, 08:15:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11935586

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lookleft

What do you think? BTW they weren't relighting the engine. They were returning the fuel switch to the position that it should have been in.`

And that did relight the engines, as the preliminary report notes.

Subjects Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Preliminary Report Relight

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Senior Pilot
September 23, 2025, 01:32:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11958049

Just FYI: Air India crash aftermath handled 'irresponsibly', says court

Quote:

7 hours ago | Faarea Masud | Business reporter
The highest court in India has strongly criticised the country's aviation authorities for their handling of the aftermath of the Air India plane crash that killed 261 people in June.

Leaving only one survivor , the flight bound for Gatwick airport from Ahmedabad crashed shortly after taking off, killing 242 passengers on board and 19 others on the ground.

The court said it was "irresponsible" for the aviation authority to suggest, through leaks to the media, that pilot error had caused the disaster.

It called on Indian prime minister Narendra Modi for the government's response before it rules on a case filed by activists demanding an independent investigation.

The court said the way the aviation body released its preliminary report in to the Boeing Dreamliner's crash was "selective and piecemeal".

The preliminary report, publishedby India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) in July, said fuel supply to the engines was cut off just seconds after take-off.

The report also said one of the pilots was heard asking the other "why did he cut off" in a cockpit voice recording, with another pilot responding that he did not do so.

The recording doesn't clarify who said what. At the time of take-off, the co-pilot was flying the aircraft while the captain was monitoring.

But the findings of the report have been challenged by aviation safety group Safety Matters Foundation, which is calling for an independent investigation into the crash.

In a court hearing overseeing the aviation safety group's petition, one of India's Supreme Court judges said that suggestions that the pilots deliberately shut off fuel supply were "very unfortunate and irresponsible".

The crash has left many questioning the safety of India's airspace.

The chief of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGAC) has defended the safety record of the country , telling the BBC in July that "India's skies have always been safe".

That same month, the DGCA uncovered 51 safety violations at Air India in the preceding year , as part of its annual audit of the country's airlines.

The families of four passengers who died on the plane filed a lawsuit in the US against planemaker Boeing and aircraft parts maker Honeywell, accusing the companies of negligence.

The lawsuit accused the companies of doing "nothing" despite being aware of the risks of the aircraft's design.

Last edited by T28B; 23rd September 2025 at 19:45 . Reason: formatting at the top

Subjects AAIB (All) BBC DGCA Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Honeywell Preliminary Report

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Timmy Tomkins
October 03, 2025, 13:23:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11963754

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefttp

I am watching this show now, will report soon.

Update, Don\x92t waste your time. A re-hash of various theories (Faulty cutoff switches, electrical faults) surprisingly they seem to gloss over the fact that the cutoff switches were physically moved, and stated \x93We still don\x92t know why or if the pilot actually moved the switch\x94. The last portion devolved into the various issues that Boeing has had with the MAX and the FAA. It ends insinuating that it\x92s Boeings fault, and investigators still haven\x92t figured out what Boeing did wrong.

Stil a better job than the one on Ch5 here. I had some input to the one you refer to but so did others and not all the stuff that was relevant made it to the screen unfortunately. The methodology behind the cuttoff switch design, confirmed by tdracer, was provided but not used. Obviously there was nothing new since the prelim report anyway, so nothing new for them to work with.

Subjects FAA Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Preliminary Report

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Musician
November 07, 2025, 19:01:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11984922

Quote:

Originally Posted by sitigeltfel

This is the Supreme Court Judge, Justice Surya Kant, who has decided the Captain was not to blame.

That's not what it was about.

From the Reuters article:

Nov 7 (Reuters) - India's top court said on Friday that a preliminary report on an Air India crash that killed 260 people in June does not insinuate anything against the captain, but it will hear a plea from the pilot's father on November 10 for an independent probe.

So the question was: did the preliminary report blame the Captain?
I agree with the judge that it did not.

It's a father who wants a court to tell everyone that his son did nothing wrong.
It's understandable, but I'd rather wait for the facts to emerge.

But given this legal climate, I fear the AAIB might withhold the final report, as they're likely to get sued over it if they publish.

Subjects AAIB (All) Preliminary Report

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T28B
November 28, 2025, 11:56:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11997149

Quote:

Originally Posted by LondonSpotter

Hi all

My first post in this forum.
This article (or the link to it) came up in my newsfeed the day before yesterday (but I have just found out I'm not yet allowed to post URLs) so try this and take out the 2 spaces at the beginning - https:// www.msn.com / en-in/news/india/ahmedabad-crash-ai-171-suffered-multiple-failures-in-48-hours-before-fatal-flight-reveals-report/ar-AA1R8TbF?ocid=socialshare
and I was just about to post a message saying 'it appears to be a broken link - does anyone have the right one?' and then when I googled AI171 multiple failures 48 hours it did finally take me to what appears to be the article.

Is it your understanding that "The Federal" (whom The Financial Express cites as a source, and from whom msn grabbed this article) is privy to information that the Investigating Team does not have access to? While it is possible that there are some leaks from within Air India that someone may be using as a source, the link you offered is third hand.

Treat with caution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the cited article

Newly emerging details however suggests that the Dreamliner may have been struggling with technical issues for multiple days before its fatal final flight.

If you read the preliminary report, which is linked to here on PPRuNe, in post number 3 of this very thread (you can download .the pdf file), you will find that the investigation board had reviewed the maintenance records and didn't find anything that they felt was a contributor to the accident in the way implied by the article you cited.
With that said, the investigation isn't completed (the final report isn't due out until a year after the crash) and they may uncover all kinds of details that were not reported upon within the body of the interim report.
But, you may also wish to consider that if something does crop up that is worthy of the attention of all 787 operators, they will issue either a bulletin (or other such amplification from the interim report) via formal channels in order alert those whose fleets have that aircraft in them.

I note a lack of reference to any such official information in the article you linked to.
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/india...id=socialshare

Last edited by Pilot DAR; 29th November 2025 at 00:25 . Reason: Corrected 777 to be 787 [operators]

Subjects AI171 Preliminary Report

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JustusW
December 01, 2025, 08:12:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11998522

I was taught that when you insert blame into the process safety suffers. I can't imagine Safety Culture is taught differently today. Sadly it seems many are out to do just that in the case of this investigation. This will be a watershed moment for Indian aviation safety and probably set the tone for decades to come. Let's hope that they manage to pull it off, despite the adversity. As far as I can tell there is no more current information than the previously discussed preliminary report?

Subjects Preliminary Report

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AAKEE August 06, 2025, 17:44:00 GMT permalink Post: 11934272	Quote: Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs I cannot understand the almost paranoid desire to have all the information known about this prang spewed out by the investigators as soon as they get some. Why? What purpose would it serve apart from satisfying the apparently ghoulish desire of some? We've got the preliminary report; hypothesise all you like but to expect more info is just being na\xefve. Yes. We have the preliminary. Lets hope the investigation people get the time and piece needed to produce a high quality report. For that TV show I guess most people reading this thread will get no new facts. For the speculation part I guess it is a higher risk of us sighing than hearing any news. Subjects Preliminary Report Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 1 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Lonewolf_50 August 06, 2025, 18:23:00 GMT permalink Post: 11934301	Quote: Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs I cannot understand the almost paranoid desire to have all the information known about this prang spewed out by the investigators as soon as they get some. Why? What purpose would it serve apart from satisfying the apparently ghoulish desire of some? We've got the preliminary report; hypothesise all you like but to expect more info is just being na\xefve. As for That attitude is a bit of a worry coming from a professional pilot. I think you make an assumption in your last sentence, which is one that I do not make based on the inputs provided. Subjects Preliminary Report Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. No recorded likes for this post (could be before pprune supported 'likes'). Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
za9ra22 August 08, 2025, 14:11:00 GMT permalink Post: 11935237	Quote: Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 ....What gets me, with the info I have available so far, is the reported delay in turning the fuel back on. This is a bit more striking given that the verbal challenge "why did you turn them off" got "I didn't" as a reply. My experience with action slips is that "Ooh, sheet, moved the wrong thing, fix it!" is the more common reaction or behavior. This strikes me as one of the most apposite of questions in this incident. If we take it as read - which I do but some clearly don't - that the preliminary report contains all the pertinent details as known at the time it was written, then that delay is rather inexplicable. The absence of any reported further confrontation or verbal exchanges on the flight deck rather suggests the pilots were not sure what had happened. Even if it is taken as read that one pilot was acting intentionally, unless their hand covered the switches - in which case surely there would be some audible action or demand by the other - it would not likely take that long to act and correct the problem. Subjects Action slip Preliminary Report Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 2 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Musician August 09, 2025, 08:15:00 GMT permalink Post: 11935586	Quote: Originally Posted by Lookleft What do you think? BTW they weren't relighting the engine. They were returning the fuel switch to the position that it should have been in.` And that did relight the engines, as the preliminary report notes. Subjects Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Preliminary Report Relight Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 2 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Senior Pilot September 23, 2025, 01:32:00 GMT permalink Post: 11958049	Just FYI: Air India crash aftermath handled 'irresponsibly', says court Quote: 7 hours ago \| Faarea Masud \| Business reporter The highest court in India has strongly criticised the country's aviation authorities for their handling of the aftermath of the Air India plane crash that killed 261 people in June. Leaving only one survivor , the flight bound for Gatwick airport from Ahmedabad crashed shortly after taking off, killing 242 passengers on board and 19 others on the ground. The court said it was "irresponsible" for the aviation authority to suggest, through leaks to the media, that pilot error had caused the disaster. It called on Indian prime minister Narendra Modi for the government's response before it rules on a case filed by activists demanding an independent investigation. The court said the way the aviation body released its preliminary report in to the Boeing Dreamliner's crash was "selective and piecemeal". The preliminary report, publishedby India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) in July, said fuel supply to the engines was cut off just seconds after take-off. The report also said one of the pilots was heard asking the other "why did he cut off" in a cockpit voice recording, with another pilot responding that he did not do so. The recording doesn't clarify who said what. At the time of take-off, the co-pilot was flying the aircraft while the captain was monitoring. But the findings of the report have been challenged by aviation safety group Safety Matters Foundation, which is calling for an independent investigation into the crash. In a court hearing overseeing the aviation safety group's petition, one of India's Supreme Court judges said that suggestions that the pilots deliberately shut off fuel supply were "very unfortunate and irresponsible". The crash has left many questioning the safety of India's airspace. The chief of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGAC) has defended the safety record of the country , telling the BBC in July that "India's skies have always been safe". That same month, the DGCA uncovered 51 safety violations at Air India in the preceding year , as part of its annual audit of the country's airlines. The families of four passengers who died on the plane filed a lawsuit in the US against planemaker Boeing and aircraft parts maker Honeywell, accusing the companies of negligence. The lawsuit accused the companies of doing "nothing" despite being aware of the risks of the aircraft's design. Last edited by T28B; 23rd September 2025 at 19:45 . Reason: formatting at the top Subjects AAIB (All) BBC DGCA Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Honeywell Preliminary Report Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. No recorded likes for this post (could be before pprune supported 'likes'). Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Timmy Tomkins October 03, 2025, 13:23:00 GMT permalink Post: 11963754	Quote: Originally Posted by Chiefttp I am watching this show now, will report soon. Update, Don\x92t waste your time. A re-hash of various theories (Faulty cutoff switches, electrical faults) surprisingly they seem to gloss over the fact that the cutoff switches were physically moved, and stated \x93We still don\x92t know why or if the pilot actually moved the switch\x94. The last portion devolved into the various issues that Boeing has had with the MAX and the FAA. It ends insinuating that it\x92s Boeings fault, and investigators still haven\x92t figured out what Boeing did wrong. Stil a better job than the one on Ch5 here. I had some input to the one you refer to but so did others and not all the stuff that was relevant made it to the screen unfortunately. The methodology behind the cuttoff switch design, confirmed by tdracer, was provided but not used. Obviously there was nothing new since the prelim report anyway, so nothing new for them to work with. Subjects FAA Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Preliminary Report Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. No recorded likes for this post (could be before pprune supported 'likes'). Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Musician November 07, 2025, 19:01:00 GMT permalink Post: 11984922	Quote: Originally Posted by sitigeltfel This is the Supreme Court Judge, Justice Surya Kant, who has decided the Captain was not to blame. That's not what it was about. From the Reuters article: Nov 7 (Reuters) - India's top court said on Friday that a preliminary report on an Air India crash that killed 260 people in June does not insinuate anything against the captain, but it will hear a plea from the pilot's father on November 10 for an independent probe. So the question was: did the preliminary report blame the Captain? I agree with the judge that it did not. It's a father who wants a court to tell everyone that his son did nothing wrong. It's understandable, but I'd rather wait for the facts to emerge. But given this legal climate, I fear the AAIB might withhold the final report, as they're likely to get sued over it if they publish. Subjects AAIB (All) Preliminary Report Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 4 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
T28B November 28, 2025, 11:56:00 GMT permalink Post: 11997149	Quote: Originally Posted by LondonSpotter Hi all My first post in this forum. This article (or the link to it) came up in my newsfeed the day before yesterday (but I have just found out I'm not yet allowed to post URLs) so try this and take out the 2 spaces at the beginning - https:// www.msn.com / en-in/news/india/ahmedabad-crash-ai-171-suffered-multiple-failures-in-48-hours-before-fatal-flight-reveals-report/ar-AA1R8TbF?ocid=socialshare and I was just about to post a message saying 'it appears to be a broken link - does anyone have the right one?' and then when I googled AI171 multiple failures 48 hours it did finally take me to what appears to be the article. Is it your understanding that "The Federal" (whom The Financial Express cites as a source, and from whom msn grabbed this article) is privy to information that the Investigating Team does not have access to? While it is possible that there are some leaks from within Air India that someone may be using as a source, the link you offered is third hand. Treat with caution. Quote: Originally Posted by the cited article Newly emerging details however suggests that the Dreamliner may have been struggling with technical issues for multiple days before its fatal final flight. If you read the preliminary report, which is linked to here on PPRuNe, in post number 3 of this very thread (you can download .the pdf file), you will find that the investigation board had reviewed the maintenance records and didn't find anything that they felt was a contributor to the accident in the way implied by the article you cited. With that said, the investigation isn't completed (the final report isn't due out until a year after the crash) and they may uncover all kinds of details that were not reported upon within the body of the interim report. But, you may also wish to consider that if something does crop up that is worthy of the attention of all 787 operators, they will issue either a bulletin (or other such amplification from the interim report) via formal channels in order alert those whose fleets have that aircraft in them. I note a lack of reference to any such official information in the article you linked to. https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/india...id=socialshare Last edited by Pilot DAR; 29th November 2025 at 00:25 . Reason: Corrected 777 to be 787 [operators] Subjects AI171 Preliminary Report Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 2 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
JustusW December 01, 2025, 08:12:00 GMT permalink Post: 11998522	I was taught that when you insert blame into the process safety suffers. I can't imagine Safety Culture is taught differently today. Sadly it seems many are out to do just that in the case of this investigation. This will be a watershed moment for Indian aviation safety and probably set the tone for decades to come. Let's hope that they manage to pull it off, despite the adversity. As far as I can tell there is no more current information than the previously discussed preliminary report? Subjects Preliminary Report Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 1 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.

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