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barrymung
June 12, 2025, 16:22:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899436 |
Conceivably, it could be a double engine failure but that's very unlikely. |
L8ngtkite
June 12, 2025, 16:29:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899442 |
All VFGs offline?
Suggests dual engine shutdown/rollback (VFGs offline) with auto RAT deployment.
Full length departure. Aircraft flaps/slats extended. Mayday broadcast. This has a long way to go. I wouldn't be judging the Liveware until the data\x92s been analyzed in detail. |
Sriajuda
June 12, 2025, 17:04:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899487 |
You have heard AC with the RAT deployed HUNDREDS of times? The RAT is a last resort, when all other power sources have failed. All engines, the APU and (possibly) batteries on AC as the 787. Yet you have heard hundreds of RAT deployments passing overhead? Yeah, sure.
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fdr
June 12, 2025, 17:07:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899492 |
The video take from the south end of the airport appears to show the RAT deployed. The flight VAAH-EGLL is not a particularly heavy departure, the takeoff distance is not unreasonable for a twin jet, at under 7,000' from brakes release. I have limited developmental time only on the 787 before EIS, and I cannot recall any surprising latent threat in the performance of the aircraft for a premature flap retraction, and that certainly would not result in a RAT deployment. An accidental ATR low level off capture might get exciting for a few seconds, but it would not result in a RAT either. The seat 11A pax survivor is remarkable. |
bobdxb
June 12, 2025, 17:23:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899506 |
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digits_
June 12, 2025, 17:29:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899514 |
What does a RAT deployment sound like inside the cabin? Could the mere deployment be perceived as the 'loud bang' in a high stress situation?
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DaveReidUK
June 12, 2025, 17:34:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899523 |
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golfyankeesierra
June 12, 2025, 17:46:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899534 |
• both engines have failed • all three hydraulic system pressures are low • loss of all electrical power to captain’s and first officer’s flight instruments • loss of all four EMPs and faults in the flight control system occur on approach • loss of all four EMPs and an engine fails on takeoff or landing (EMP = electric motor pump, hydraulic) FYI the RAT is an emergency source for electrical and/or hydraulic power. Last edited by golfyankeesierra; 12th June 2025 at 17:57 . |
JanetFlight
June 12, 2025, 17:50:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899536 |
Regarding that possibility some members here are posting a scenario where RAT are deployed, could this be possible (im no 787 driver at all)?
1) Near the moment of Rotation or a few seconds after it, an Engine failure occurred. (Bird, Fod, Mx, Tech, etc) 2) By destiny irony as in Kegworth or Taipei aviators cut the good one by mistake. 3) No running engines, RAT comes alive... May all RIP, such a sad day for us all... |
ahmetdouas
June 12, 2025, 18:09:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899555 |
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Good Business Sense
June 12, 2025, 18:16:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899563 |
Yep, total rubbish - 45 years airline flying - deployed it only once and never saw it anywhere else.
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TURIN
June 12, 2025, 18:22:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899571 |
Each engine has two identical Variable Frequency Starter Motor Generators. They are a combined starter motor and generator. More in this ancient thread here- 787 electrical system - variable frequency generators? |
matt72033
June 12, 2025, 18:36:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899584 |
Many people living/working in the Everett or Charleston areas will have heard the RAT many times. |
RCyyz
June 12, 2025, 18:43:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899589 |
I am not a pilot so apologies if this is a basic question.
Watching the CCTV from the airport, it doesn't look like there was much time to do anything. I'm surprised someone called a Mayday (if that's true). And even to me, it seems pretty clear that bird never had enough power to go much of anywhere except where it did. All so very tragic. |
PlaneMass
June 12, 2025, 18:52:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899599 |
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slacktide
June 12, 2025, 20:54:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899723 |
As noted in my profile, I live in the Apple Maggot Quarantine area. Specifically, I live in Lynnwood, Washington directly under the approach path for Paine Field's runway 34 Left, and I've been there since 2007. I lived in Mukilteo from 2000-2007, which is more next to the runway than under it. I also own and operate a small aircraft based at Paine Field and am outside on the ramp at least every other day. Boeing manufactures the 777 and 787 at Paine field. Two thousand, nine hundred and fourty-six of them have been made since 2000, when I moved here. The RAT is deployed and tested during EVERY SINGLE first flight of every aircraft Boeing produces that has a RAT installed. And sometimes it requires a re-test on subsequent flights. So yeah, I have heard a deployed RAT, from the ground, HUNDREDS of times. I've heard it while preflighting my airplane, I've heard it while mowing my lawn, I've heard while lying in bed. And this is exactly what they always sounds like. Another poster compared it to the sound of a T-6 Texan, which is really quite similar. You can find dozens and dozens of videos on YouTube of aircraft landing at Paine Field with the RAT out. It's not rare, it happens daily. Last edited by Senior Pilot; 13th June 2025 at 01:08 . Reason: Remove abuse of another member |
alexmclean
June 12, 2025, 20:56:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899728 |
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CurlyB
June 12, 2025, 21:01:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899731 |
You are ignorant, and you are rude. There are people in the world who have a different, less limited lived experience from you.
As noted in my profile, I live in the Apple Maggot Quarantine area. Specifically, I live in Lynnwood, Washington directly under the approach path for Paine Field's runway 34 Left, and I've been there since 2007. I lived in Mukilteo from 2000-2007, which is more next to the runway than under it. I also own and operate a small aircraft based at Paine Field and am outside on the ramp at least every other day. Boeing manufactures the 777 and 787 at Paine field. Two thousand, nine hundred and fourty-six of them have been made since 2000, when I moved here. The RAT is deployed and tested during EVERY SINGLE first flight of every aircraft Boeing produces that has a RAT installed. And sometimes it requires a re-test on subsequent flights. So yeah, I have heard a deployed RAT, from the ground, HUNDREDS of times. I've heard it while preflighting my airplane, I've heard it while mowing my lawn, I've heard while lying in bed. And this is exactly what they always sounds like. Another poster compared it to the sound of a T-6 Texan, which is really quite similar. You can find dozens and dozens of videos on YouTube of aircraft landing at Paine Field with the RAT out. It's not rare, it happens daily. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDZJYpe0uL8 |
IFMU
June 12, 2025, 21:25:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899752 |
There are no IDGs on a 787. There are 4 identical variable frequency starter-generators.
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Intrance
June 12, 2025, 21:37:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899761 |
For those still under the impression that the takeoff or rotation was at the runway end... In the video of the CCTV camera you can see rotation happens basically behind the small structure in the foreground. Unless I am severely mistaken... Knowing the approximate rotation of the camera, one can simple draw a line until it intersects with both the structure and the runway:
![]() Yes, it is just an approximation, but I'd say they still had a decent chunk of runway left, and not in any way close to taking out antennas on the opposite end. So... likely not at MTOW, not using the full runway, normal rotation, followed by videos of it with RAT deployed which should only happen upon loss of all electrical/hydraulical sources, which should only really happen on loss of both engines without APU running, combined with barely (if any) sound produced by the engines in said videos... It leads me to form some sort of image of what happened. Could still be completely wrong. I have done a RAT deployment test flight on a previous type, and even though I was prepared for it, it was still a bit of a shock to see the cockpit go mostly blank before reconfiguring itself. I don't know how quickly the 787 would reconfigure, if there is any downtime at all, but that would not have been a thing you'd expect at 100-200ft AGL. I do not know how many of us would quickly overcome the startle. |
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