Andy_S Page: 1 of 1

Andy_S
June 14, 2025, 18:21:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11901675

Quote:

Originally Posted by A0283

Captain in his 40\x92s with 8200 hrs but reported to have been flying for 22 years and being a training/check pilot. So would be interesting to hear more about confirmation of his experience.

According to The Times today, he was in his 60s and shortly to retire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stn

Is that with the B787? Because all buses can fly without APU. Those days at work are ####ty, tho

I think you might have misunderstood. West Coast was (I believe) suggesting that if APU operation needed to be maintained during take off, then an inoperative APU would ground the aircraft.

I flew on a BA A320 just a few days ago that departed with a non-functioning APU.

Subjects APU

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Andy_S
June 17, 2025, 16:19:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11904392

Quote:

Originally Posted by ernst_mulder

Being mere SLF, the knowledge that a mandatory system called TCMA even exists worries me a little. A system with authority to shut down (all) engines without any interference from one of the pilots should IMHO not exist in an airplane.

Having read this, and the earlier thread pretty much from beginning to end, my understanding is that several conditions need to be met for TCMA to intervene. WoW is just one of those conditions.

Subjects: None

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Andy_S
June 20, 2025, 12:48:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11906883

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Balloon

Recall that the various search 'arcs' for MH370 were calculated on the basis of attempts by the engine monitoring systems to transmit data via satellite. The system involved did not transmit the data continuously.

Not quite.

The periodic 'pings' from MH370 were automated health signals. For want of a better description a brief electronic greeting to the satellite. No attempt was made to transmit data.

Subjects: None

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Andy_S
July 13, 2025, 17:30:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11921428

Quote:

Originally Posted by skippybangkok

My 10 cents is on the switches and there is not a aireworthiness directive out there for nothing.

Apologies for being pedantic, but there is no Airworthiness Directive related to the switches.

There is a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB for short). It's not the same thing, and it's not mandatory to act on it's contents. You can draw your own conclusions as to why that is.

Subjects Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin

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Andy_S
July 14, 2025, 09:37:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11921961

Quote:

Originally Posted by flt001

Two separate fuel switches set to cut off, at one of the most critical phases of flight where doing so would lead to an unrecoverable situation, followed by one pilot asking the other why he set the switches to cut off.

No AD from Boeing or NTSB.

Given that there's no evidence that the Fuel Cut-off Switches, or indeed any other part of the aircraft functioned incorrectly, what exactly should such an Airworthiness Directive be saying?

Subjects Air Worthiness Directives Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Fuel Cutoff Switches NTSB

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Andy_S
July 14, 2025, 14:05:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11922183

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paraffin Budgie

Further, what would be your reaction (as a pilot flying) to your colleague turning off the switches (again, not a remotely normal course of action). I think that mine would be something along the lines of "What the h*ll do you think that you're doing?"

Don't underestimate the strength of the authority gradient.

If - hypothetically - it was the PF who noticed the switches had been pulled and who then asked the question, he may have been reluctant to challenge a senior and more experienced colleague in such an assertive manner.

Subjects Authority Gradient

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Andy_S
July 15, 2025, 14:46:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11922962

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabenaboy

Hopefully this video will help to avoid hamsterwheel questions about how those FCS's work.

If you watch that video it should be self-evident how difficult it would be to inadvertently leave the switch in an 'intermediate' position.

The probability of doing so for both switches would be incredibly remote.

Subjects: None

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Andy_S
July 17, 2025, 20:26:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11924596

Quote:

Originally Posted by andihce

Perhaps he is looking at the opposite direction of takeoff (runway 05)?

That's what I wondered.

AI171 took off in a broadly South Westerly direction and came down about 500m from the Civil Hospital (Red Marker in the image below)

I really don't see any good options. And the river is still 2km distant (and in any case at right angles to the direction of flight).

Subjects AI171

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Andy_S
February 02, 2026, 14:26:00 GMT
permalink Post: 12031111

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ver5pen

...the plane is now grounded by the airline so something happened

Are you quite sure the aircraft is grounded??

Subjects: None

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Andy_S
February 02, 2026, 14:33:00 GMT
permalink Post: 12031117

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustusW

Source: He made it the eff up. XD
Well, to be fair, he probably just missed a word. Namely the "a". Because the incident 787 was very much grounded. *sigh*

Fair enough.

FlightAware are showing the aircraft as scheduled to operate an internal flight today, but perhaps they haven't caught up with events.

Subjects: None

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Andy_S
February 02, 2026, 16:10:00 GMT
permalink Post: 12031160

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den2020

Now there is a separate avherald-article for this incident:
https://avherald.com/h?article=5342238e&opt=0

...
The foundation stated when asked why the aircraft departed nonetheless: "The issue is, there is no guidance." ... unbelievable

From the article:

Quote:

the crew rechecked the switches by touching them, the left hand lever jumped to the CUTOFF position

It should not be physically possible for the switch to behave in the way described. As someone said earlier, I smell a rat.....

Perhaps more pertinently, given the manner of AI171's tragic end and what has been established about events in it's final moments (and indeed what remains unknown), for experienced aviation professionals to have noted this alleged defect and decided to accept it and depart regardless is jaw dropping. Unless, of course, the reality was not as described above.

Subjects RUN/CUTOFF

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Andy_S June 14, 2025, 18:21:00 GMT permalink Post: 11901675	Quote: Originally Posted by A0283 Captain in his 40\x92s with 8200 hrs but reported to have been flying for 22 years and being a training/check pilot. So would be interesting to hear more about confirmation of his experience. According to The Times today, he was in his 60s and shortly to retire. Quote: Originally Posted by stn Is that with the B787? Because all buses can fly without APU. Those days at work are ####ty, tho I think you might have misunderstood. West Coast was (I believe) suggesting that if APU operation needed to be maintained during take off, then an inoperative APU would ground the aircraft. I flew on a BA A320 just a few days ago that departed with a non-functioning APU. Subjects APU Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. The thread is closed so there are no user likes are available and no reply is possible.
Andy_S June 17, 2025, 16:19:00 GMT permalink Post: 11904392	Quote: Originally Posted by ernst_mulder Being mere SLF, the knowledge that a mandatory system called TCMA even exists worries me a little. A system with authority to shut down (all) engines without any interference from one of the pilots should IMHO not exist in an airplane. Having read this, and the earlier thread pretty much from beginning to end, my understanding is that several conditions need to be met for TCMA to intervene. WoW is just one of those conditions. Subjects: None The thread is closed so there are no user likes are available and no reply is possible.
Andy_S June 20, 2025, 12:48:00 GMT permalink Post: 11906883	Quote: Originally Posted by Lead Balloon Recall that the various search 'arcs' for MH370 were calculated on the basis of attempts by the engine monitoring systems to transmit data via satellite. The system involved did not transmit the data continuously. Not quite. The periodic 'pings' from MH370 were automated health signals. For want of a better description a brief electronic greeting to the satellite. No attempt was made to transmit data. Subjects: None The thread is closed so there are no user likes are available and no reply is possible.
Andy_S July 13, 2025, 17:30:00 GMT permalink Post: 11921428	Quote: Originally Posted by skippybangkok My 10 cents is on the switches and there is not a aireworthiness directive out there for nothing. Apologies for being pedantic, but there is no Airworthiness Directive related to the switches. There is a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB for short). It's not the same thing, and it's not mandatory to act on it's contents. You can draw your own conclusions as to why that is. Subjects Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 7 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Andy_S July 14, 2025, 09:37:00 GMT permalink Post: 11921961	Quote: Originally Posted by flt001 Two separate fuel switches set to cut off, at one of the most critical phases of flight where doing so would lead to an unrecoverable situation, followed by one pilot asking the other why he set the switches to cut off. No AD from Boeing or NTSB. Given that there's no evidence that the Fuel Cut-off Switches, or indeed any other part of the aircraft functioned incorrectly, what exactly should such an Airworthiness Directive be saying? Subjects Air Worthiness Directives Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Fuel Cutoff Switches NTSB Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. No recorded likes for this post (could be before pprune supported 'likes'). Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Andy_S July 14, 2025, 14:05:00 GMT permalink Post: 11922183	Quote: Originally Posted by Paraffin Budgie Further, what would be your reaction (as a pilot flying) to your colleague turning off the switches (again, not a remotely normal course of action). I think that mine would be something along the lines of "What the hll do you think that you're doing?" Don't underestimate the strength of the authority gradient. If - hypothetically - it was the PF who noticed the switches had been pulled and who then asked the question, he may have been reluctant to challenge a senior and more experienced colleague in such an assertive manner. Subjects* Authority Gradient Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. No recorded likes for this post (could be before pprune supported 'likes'). Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Andy_S July 15, 2025, 14:46:00 GMT permalink Post: 11922962	Quote: Originally Posted by sabenaboy Hopefully this video will help to avoid hamsterwheel questions about how those FCS's work. If you watch that video it should be self-evident how difficult it would be to inadvertently leave the switch in an 'intermediate' position. The probability of doing so for both switches would be incredibly remote. Subjects: None 4 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Andy_S July 17, 2025, 20:26:00 GMT permalink Post: 11924596	Quote: Originally Posted by andihce Perhaps he is looking at the opposite direction of takeoff (runway 05)? That's what I wondered. AI171 took off in a broadly South Westerly direction and came down about 500m from the Civil Hospital (Red Marker in the image below) I really don't see any good options. And the river is still 2km distant (and in any case at right angles to the direction of flight). Subjects AI171 Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 2 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Andy_S February 02, 2026, 14:26:00 GMT permalink Post: 12031111	Quote: Originally Posted by Ver5pen ...the plane is now grounded by the airline so something happened Are you quite sure the aircraft is grounded?? Subjects: None No recorded likes for this post (could be before pprune supported 'likes'). Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Andy_S February 02, 2026, 14:33:00 GMT permalink Post: 12031117	Quote: Originally Posted by JustusW Source: He made it the eff up. XD Well, to be fair, he probably just missed a word. Namely the "a". Because the incident 787 was very much grounded. sigh Fair enough. FlightAware are showing the aircraft as scheduled to operate an internal flight today, but perhaps they haven't caught up with events. Subjects: None No recorded likes for this post (could be before pprune supported 'likes'). Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Andy_S February 02, 2026, 16:10:00 GMT permalink Post: 12031160	Quote: Originally Posted by Den2020 Now there is a separate avherald-article for this incident: https://avherald.com/h?article=5342238e&opt=0 ... The foundation stated when asked why the aircraft departed nonetheless: "The issue is, there is no guidance." ... unbelievable From the article: Quote: the crew rechecked the switches by touching them, the left hand lever jumped to the CUTOFF position It should not be physically possible for the switch to behave in the way described. As someone said earlier, I smell a rat..... Perhaps more pertinently, given the manner of AI171's tragic end and what has been established about events in it's final moments (and indeed what remains unknown), for experienced aviation professionals to have noted this alleged defect and decided to accept it and depart regardless is jaw dropping. Unless, of course, the reality was not as described above. Subjects RUN/CUTOFF Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 1 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.

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