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Capn Bloggs
June 21, 2025, 15:06:00 GMT permalink Post: 11907827 |
Originally Posted by
sabenaboy
I was wondering what the cockpit jumpseat policy in Air India is? Is it known if someone was flying along in the cockpit?
Originally Posted by
T28B
Were there another person, one expects that evidence will be found as the CVR data is deciphered by the investigating team.
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): CVR Jump Seat |
Capn Bloggs
June 22, 2025, 10:06:00 GMT permalink Post: 11908406 |
Originally Posted by
Iccy
The Jeju recorders were okay if I recall correctly, they just had no input, was that the case?
Point taken about the radio.
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Somoeone made a good point above about the German Wings FDR/CVR being available the next day after the aircraft was aimed at the ground like a missile. These things are built tough, as you know, this may be type specific but….
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): CVR FDR |
Capn Bloggs
June 28, 2025, 03:50:00 GMT permalink Post: 11912317 |
Originally Posted by
Maybeitis
In response to removed posted video link about drifting ADs since 2022, not finished yet but remarkably, seems to be 100% accurate:
Subjects: None |
Capn Bloggs
June 30, 2025, 16:26:00 GMT permalink Post: 11913745 |
Richard Godfrey has completely ignored that fact that the speed was reducing all the way down the descent. He has hypothesised a steady descent angle at around 3.5:1 and therefore concluded that one engine had stopped and the other was on ~10,000lb of thrust because, at the initial speed they needed that thrust to counter the drag. But the AOA clearly increases markedly as the aircraft approaches the ground, which means that the speed was reducing significantly.
As for statements such as:
One Engine Inoperative (OEI) just before take-off(Assumption).
​​​​​​​The Take-Off Speed at rotation is estimated at 160 KIAS (167 KTAS, 170 GS), which is higher than normal and expected in an assumed OEI take-off.
​​​​​​​The rotation point requires a runway ground roll of 2,540 m, which is longer than normal due to an assumed OEI take-off.
​​​​​​​The climb gradient is estimated at 5.09%, which is slightly above the normal range of 3% to 4%at TOGA for a Boeing 787-8, but within limits
​​​​​​​True airspeed was under-indicated due to low density, in other words the aircraft was moving faster through the air than the airspeed indicator showed, because there were fewer air molecules hitting the pitot tube in the hot, thin air
​​​​​​​The aircraft peaked early, then levelled off and started descending while passing over obstacles. It barely cleared Obstacle B by ~50 feet, which is tight, but sufficient. This explains the visibly profile in video and supports the notion of degraded climb due to hot/high conditions, heavyweight, and limited thrust margin
In a nutshell, he's saying they had an engine failure before rotation, then got all the way up to 300-odd feet (following what looked to me like an initially standard low-angle/flat 787 takeoff, then ran out of puff and crashed with the other engine running at 15-18% Thrust. Pure speculation aka WAG. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Engine Failure (All) Self Proclaimed Experts TOGA |
Capn Bloggs
July 01, 2025, 04:06:00 GMT permalink Post: 11914010 |
Originally Posted by
Megan
Switch over to the centre tank to feed all engines typically takes place at 10,000'
![]() Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Centre Tank FCOM |
Capn Bloggs
July 01, 2025, 07:15:00 GMT permalink Post: 11914061 |
Originally Posted by
Megan
I said centre tanks were typically turned on at that altitude (using a certain 737 operator as a guide).
Subjects: None |
Capn Bloggs
July 01, 2025, 07:45:00 GMT permalink Post: 11914074 |
I've heard of conspiracy theories, but thinking that Boeing and the FAA have allowed the 787 to be certified with a non-compliant fuel system operation is going a bit far. And what about EASA? Plenty of European operators of 787s; EASA must agree it's compliant. "A320/737 does this" is totally irrelevant.
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): FAA |
Capn Bloggs
July 01, 2025, 08:53:00 GMT permalink Post: 11914121 |
Originally Posted by
AAKEE
The FAR/CS 25 doesn’t seem to require fuel from separate tanks during takeoff.
Time to give this certification stuff a rest. Subjects: None |
Capn Bloggs
July 10, 2025, 11:21:00 GMT permalink Post: 11918949 |
So, we have a Memory Drill with a non-numbered thing you have to remember first, being sub-idle, and an FCTM that pumps the idea of getting those switches off and on ASAP, before the revs drop off too much, at any speed or altitude.
Great. Subjects: None |
Capn Bloggs
July 12, 2025, 10:08:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920453 |
Originally Posted by
Atatacks
At no point was gear up commanded (and obviously initiated) ? Did we have a PRC call out ?
Subjects: None |
Capn Bloggs
July 12, 2025, 11:32:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920533 |
Originally Posted by
Uplinker
This might have been discussed but as has been suggested upthread; a possible scenario is that at some point, PIC took their hands off the thrust levers and/or placed them in a guarding position behind the thrust levers at their base - but by doing so unfortunately nudged the Fuel cut-off switches to 'Off' - perhaps 'helped' by there either being incorrectly fitted locking mechanisms or worn locking mechanisms ?
Originally Posted by
Uplinker
On this flight, the relative drop in noise and calm that follows the landing gear doors closing after the gear retracts during the initial climb, might have caused an action slip by PIC to perform the engine shut-down procedure used when parking on stand.
Mods, if you don't lock the thread, I'm going back to Facebook! ![]() Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Action slip Engine Failure (All) Engine Shutdown Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Fuel Cutoff Switches Thread Moderation |
Capn Bloggs
July 12, 2025, 11:39:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920544 |
Originally Posted by
Viloator
This is a discussion forum, of course there is (and should be!) significant discussion about a bizarre crash of a modern widebody aircraft. There will naturally be speculation and some nonsense but this is a discussion forum and that is to be expected.
Originally Posted by
Firesok
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I posited this very thing weeks ago but it was immediately removed by mods.
![]() Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): CVR Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Pilot "Why did you cut off" Thread Moderation |
Capn Bloggs
July 12, 2025, 11:42:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920552 |
Originally Posted by
nachtmusak
Regardless of what actually happened in that cockpit, reasoning like this seems completely backwards to me. Since when do humans reliably, instantly recognise that they've just made a mistake?
Subjects: None |
Capn Bloggs
July 13, 2025, 05:16:00 GMT permalink Post: 11921026 |
@Maybeitis,
how about we leave the total redesign of the fuel switch locations and operation (which have been moved billions of times in thousands of aircraft without a hitch) until the final report is out.
These were deliberately moved. It wasn't a brain-fart. Unless the interim report omits crew calls which turn the scenario on it's head. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches |
Capn Bloggs
July 13, 2025, 08:31:00 GMT permalink Post: 11921132 |
Originally Posted by
Speed Trim Fail
Beyond the technical side, the Skipper’s side is the Left…. Or I’ve been doing something terribly wrong for years.
![]() Subjects: None |
Capn Bloggs
July 13, 2025, 08:51:00 GMT permalink Post: 11921150 |
Originally Posted by
Lead Balloon
​​​​​​I​
understand, to some extent, the reasoning for not publishing the actual recording as a general rule, but from my perspective the usual outcome is speculation that can be just as critical of the actions and skills of the crew, and be just as inviting to 'ambulance chasers' keen on litigation, as ripping the band aide off the sore and dealing with the truth. I remain of the view that the least bad way to get to the awful truth - whatever it may be in the circumstances of this tragedy - includes publication of the raw recordings of the cockpit and ATC.
Subjects: None |