Posts by user "Dani" [Posts: 8 Total up-votes: 0 Pages: 1]

This is not completly correct. Pilots only depend on their gut feeling if acceleration is ok. There is no single measurement equipment on board that would precisely observe the acceleration rate. Which - to my mind - is somewhat a safety glitch. Not that I would say that this plays a role in this very accident.
I often contemplate when I rattle down the runway with 375 metric tons if I really hit V1 at the right place of the concrete strip. Although I learned how it feels when you stop with this weight at this very moment (engine failure with MTOM).

If you think everything is said...

Breaking News:
On Jul 14th 2025 India's DGCA instructed airlines to check the fuel switches on the Boeing 787 and Boeing 737 aircraft as used by Air India Group, Indigo and Spicejet for possible disengagement of the fuel control switch locking feature according to the SAIB released by the FAA on Dec 17th 2018. The checks have to be completed by Jul 21st 2025.

Source: Avherald.com

Likewise it's fascinating that western pilots and technicians think that a technical problem is not possible. The hamster wheel shows very well how cultural behavior changes logical thinking: An Indian pilot cannot accept that a peer member can commit murder, while a Boeing pilot cannot accept that a simple technical problem can cause such a tragedy.
If you look at the list of possible causes of the accident, there are more technical ones than human factors.
I cannot explain the most likely cause further without risking that this post gets deleted, so I don't explain further.

Dani

I would love to explain, but my posts get deleted.

While I fully understand that a normal working fuel cut off switch on a Boeing can not move to cut off by itself, I'm completly certain that it can when the locking mechanism is not properly installed. In such a case, the moving part of the lever could even stand on a "needle point position", meaning it's neither in the on or off position. Smallest movement of the aircraft or a hand can move the lever to on or off.
I also observed many pilots in my career holding their hand at the backstop of the thrust levers on the pedestal as PM. Comes from a certain mistrust to the other pilot (mostly captains do that). If this hand falls down by a gust or a bump on the runway, his hand falls down on the pedestal. Exact location of the cut-off switches. If the locking mechanism isn't installed, you don't even feel that you moved it.

Dani

You mean just because it never has happened, it's impossible? What a strange argument.
If you look closely at the picture in post no 262
Preliminary Air India crash report published
I see a perfect example of a wrongly installed locking mechanism.
How on earth do you think this argument is unthinkable, when there are even safety bulletins and mandatory maintenance orders about this very problem?
I understand that for you, as it is obviously for most Boeing pilot and anglosaxon pilots and forum members, a red herring. But that doesn't impair me from thinking logically. I'm on neighter side. That's why facts are more important for me than for many others.

Dani

I really don't get it why you oppose to the thought it could happen on any Boeing aircraft. Since they are all very similar switches. Maybe it's even possible to interchange some of them. There are so many errors a maintenance organization can make. Fake parts?
What really frightens me is that you and others resolutely block even to think about the possibility. Because, let's be honest, the probability is not zero (and I would say nearer to 1 than to 0).

I have never moved such a switch, since I fly Airbus.
Let me ask you your question differently: How many times have you moved a faulty switch?
I know, that you and many others would immediatly identify such a bad switch and would render the aircraft as not airworthy. This is not the question. The question is: Has the Air India crew on that day identified the fault. And if yes, have they continued the flight preparation.
You don't need a suicide theory to explain such a simple course of action.

Dani

They're not going bad, they've been installed incorrectly. (According to this theory, which can be wrong, like any theory).
If an engineer has a wrong plan, then maybe he has the plan twice.

Lonewolf, I'm not talking about a switch that was broken all the time. It was wrongfully installed the same morning.
The switch was not broken. It was installed in a wrong way. I don't understand why you don't understand.

Why don't we have maintenance records in the preliminary report?

I believe you that you are a very accurate handler of switches. If one lifts the switch before one feels the resistance, one won't feel it. One only feels the spring, which is still there. Only the gate of the lock is not there. But since one can lift the switch before it get's to the gate, one wont necessarily feel the resistance.

That's not an overly detailed description. In fact, and this is the only fact, it doesn't say one word about the locking mechanism of the switches.
I don't know why most of the forum contributors cannot see this.

Winemaker, of course. Or maybe they were already a few days there. Maybe the locking mechanism was loose and started turning, so it wouldn't lock anymore. What the heck. I don't know. Does it really need that much of fantasy to imagine? We all have seen things getting loose with time. It is physically plausible. At least as much as laps or a depressed pilot.