Posts by user "EXDAC" [Posts: 27 Total up-votes: 55 Pages: 2]

EXDAC
2025-06-20T17:12:00
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Post: 11907144
tdracer posted - " Commanded engine cutoff - the aisle stand fuel switch sends electrical signals to the spar valve and the "High Pressure Shutoff Valve" (HPSOV) in the Fuel Metering Unit, commanding them to open/close using aircraft power. The HPSOV is solenoid controlled, and near instantaneous. The solenoid is of a 'locking' type that needs to be powered both ways (for obvious reasons, you wouldn't want a loss of electrical power to shut down the engine). The fire handle does the same thing, via different electrical paths (i.e. separate wiring)."

Search this thread for "HPSOV" if you need confirmation of the quote.

Note there are two shut off fuel valves per engine - the HPSOV and the Spar valve. Both stay where they are if power is lost.

Subjects: Fuel (All)  Fuel Cutoff  High Pressure Shutoff Valve

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EXDAC
2025-06-20T23:51:00
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Post: 11907396
Originally Posted by TURIN
The fuel shut off valves are fail safe open.
Wouldn't "fail safe open" imply that the valves would open on loss of control signals or power. They don't. They stay just where they were before loss of power or control signal. If I understood tdracer's description of the HPSOV it can only be open or closed. That's not true of the spar valves which are motor driven and can stop in any intermediate position if power is lost.

The only way this is relevant to the accident is if the shut off valves had been commanded closed and then power had been lost. The valves would not open.


Subjects: Fuel (All)  Fuel Cutoff  High Pressure Shutoff Valve

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EXDAC
2025-06-21T13:01:00
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Post: 11907727
Originally Posted by Aerospace101
Without going round the hamsterwheel again does anyone have an actual reference for this? Because I've gone back through each of tdracer's very informative posts about this see here and there is a discrepancy in the two points he makes below in adjacent posts. Is tdracer talking about the same HPSOV valves? Can anyone confirm that with both AC power loss and and a temporary DC power loss there are no critical engine related shutoff valves that will fail safe (unpowered) in a closed position?
Thanks for those two quotes. I had only used the first one in my previous reference to HPSOV operation. I have only been involved with Boeing spar valves and not any HPSOV. However, I do not see that spring shutoff when less than 300 psi is in conflict with staying open if electrical power is lost.

Hopefully tdracer will provide more detail if/when he re-joins the discussion.

Subjects: High Pressure Shutoff Valve

EXDAC
2025-06-28T15:54:00
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Post: 11912544
Originally Posted by Innaflap
I'm pretty sure that within the 787 data is passed over the serial data protocols to a DFDAU - Digital Flight Data Acquisition Unit where it is stored as a form of database. Quite possibly XML
I am not aware of any requirement for a DFDAU (or equivalent) to store any data. I say "or equivalent" because in B717 the DFDAU is not an LRU. It is a functional partition of the VIA.

It's not clear to me that 787 EAFR even requires an external DFDAU. The GE EAFR does not -

"Provides Flight Data Acquisition function of ARINC 664 p7 data parameters – No need for a Digital Flight Data Acquisition Unit (DFDAU)."

ref https://www.geaerospace.com/sites/de...rder-3254F.pdf

Subjects: ARINC  Digital Flight Data Acquisition Unit  EAFR  Parameters

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EXDAC
2025-06-28T18:53:00
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Post: 11912625
Originally Posted by AAKEE
As there of corse will not be any data from shutoff systems, there still will be from systems not shut down. Basic flight parameters, I guess.
much netter than\x85nothing. Thats most certainly the background to the new regulations to battery backup.
The requirements I have seen indicate that RIPS is applicable only to CVR or the CVR function of an EAFD. If you are aware of any requirement for RIPS to support flight data recording would you please provide a reference.

FAA requirements and the discussion/changes that resulted from the initial NPRM here -

https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...er-regulations

Subjects: CVR  FAA  Parameters  RIPS

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EXDAC
2025-06-28T19:40:00
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Post: 11912643
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
I believe the GE EAFR continues to function as both FDR and CVR for a minimum of 10 minutes following a power failure.
I was looking for connector pin data but only found this:

"The front panel contains one connector, J1, and a grounding stud. • J1 provides the main EAFR power supply, Aircraft Data Network, Ethernet Channels A and B, analog audio input, input and output discretes, and other miscellaneous signals."

If RIPS is external and the GE EAFD only has a "main power supply" pin then I agree it seems likely that the flight data function is powered by RIPS.

For RIPS to power only the CVR function I would have expected to see separate main power and RIPS power input pins. I could not find any data except the two page marketing brochure which is not definitive.

Subjects: CVR  EAFR  FDR  RIPS

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EXDAC
2025-07-01T03:35:00
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Post: 11914005
Originally Posted by MaybeItIs
Can I ask a question that I guess a few observers will also want to know? Is L/D (Lift-over-Drag?) the same as Glide Slope? I.e. for an L/D of 13, does that equate to 13 forward for 1 down? If so, even at 17, it doesn't look like it would make it.
Glide slope is expressed as an angle in degrees. L/D (lift/drag) is expressed as a ratio, such as 13:1, which is the ratio of distance flown to height lost. Glideslope = tan⁻\xb9 (D/L).

So, 13:1 is equivalent to 4.4 degrees.

Subjects: Lift/Drag Ratio

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