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| Gino230
June 15, 2025, 16:30:00 GMT permalink Post: 11902613 |
So it seems (after hours of reading), that the Almighty Prune has split into 3 camps, with each camp ignoring at least some evidence to the contrary, including that from actual experienced 787 pilots, test pilots, and engineers.
1. Incorrect flap / thrust settings / performance data / Autopilot management / general pilot error 2. Immediate, simultaneous thrust loss in both engines shortly after rotation 3. Crazy electrical / mechanical "theories" based on nonsense My head hurts. Although I will say, I have changed my initial thoughts from incorrect handling of the performance data / flaps to intentional or accidental shutdown of both engines. Grateful to the few knowledgeable people who continue to post here and explain design / certification of certain systems- I have learned a few things that also apply to my aircraft. Prayers to the family. 20 year 737 pilot Subjects: None |
| Gino230
June 17, 2025, 00:58:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903898 |
Greg Feith, former NTSB chief investigator, stated on his personal Facebook page yesterday that he has reliable information from an impeccable source stating that the flaps were extended. He stops short of saying they were in the correct position, but one would imagine he has some knowledge of people on scene. Just another piece of info to chew on.
I've had two theories personally and both now seem wrong so I'm keeping any of my opinions to myself! Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): NTSB |
| Gino230
June 18, 2025, 18:38:00 GMT permalink Post: 11905461 |
This isn’t the first one either. On February 9, 2024 a Challenger 600 manuevering to final at Naples FL, (APF) lost both engines simultaneously and crashed on a highway short of the runway. The NTSB final report isn’t out yet so we don’t know that cause either, but the situation was the same. SOMEhow, a highly experienced crew found themselves in a situation from which there was apparently no escape. Whatever the cause was, how did it go un-detected until it produced an accident? (It’s NTSB accident number ERA24FA110. You can find that thread on PPRUNE by searching on Challenger 600. The preliminary NTSB report contains interesting readouts from the FDR. Yes, they lost both fans simultaneously.) I’m not suggesting these two accidents have related causes, I’m only observing that both crews apparently had no way out.
My condolences to all who were lost. Please keep in mind that except by the grace of God it could have been any one of us on that terrible day. NASA retired, licensed since 1971. But I agree that the complete, simultaneous loss of thrust on both engines has to be an astronomical probability, and the cause is going to be interesting to say the least. I also agree that any one of us could be put in a horrible position within seconds that would be very hard to recover from- the older I get and the more hours I spend in the air, this starts to spend more time in one's consciousness, unfortunately. BTW calling the crew " highly experienced" is a bit of a stretch IMO, the Captain certainly was, but 1100 hours isn't even enough for an ATP in most countries. For all we know it was not a factor, of course. PS, what is an SLF?? Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Condolences Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All) FDR Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches NTSB |
| Gino230
July 09, 2025, 15:13:00 GMT permalink Post: 11918455 |
Nonsense.
There isn't anything of a factual nature to tell us that the investigation is suffering 'political interference', or that there is any issue in the use of the new lab to extract data from the flight recorders. There's unsubstantiated and improbable speculation in the guise of reporting that the data recorders might get sent elsewhere, but no credible sign this was ever planned. Plus... 'flag carrier'? Air India is a wholly owned subsidiary of Tata, not an organ of state. And prior to it's purchase by them, the Indian government didn't seem overly concerned about the airline or its future. Hard to see why they would now. The only thing well founded will be found in the accident report. They originally refused to allow UN and ICAO observers as part of the investigation, but have now reversed course. They gave one press conference in the last 30 days and no questions were taken. They took almost 2 weeks to read out the boxes. UN stated that it is up to the Country leading the investigation on wether to release the report at all- a frightening thought. They are not being transparent, for whatever reason. I don't really care as I'm more concerned with the technical details of what went wrong or who did what that led to the accident. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): DFDR ICAO |
| Gino230
July 11, 2025, 23:39:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920008 |
I operated such guarded pull-move switches on several plane types uncounted times and not a single time in my entire pilot career i had a situation that such a switch "sits" on top of the locking gate and suddenly snaps by itself .
It is either positivly on or off . In theory i could with much fantasy imagine dirt around the locking gate that keeps it pulled where you believe its latched but imaging that both switches were sitting on top of the gate and snapped back at the very moment of rotation is too much fantasy for me . Further , even with a non working locking gate such a switch would never move by accleration forces of the plane alone , it needs positive manual input . their position roughly behind the thrust levers does not offer any space to store there lets say your phone which slips down and moves them . one more point : during the very moment of rotation there is normally not a single reason to change anything in the vicinity of the center console at all to explain why you even had your hands there . Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): RUN/CUTOFF Switch Guards |
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