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KSINGH
July 12, 2025, 18:33:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920737 |
One suggestion about why the report was sanitised and a fuller transcript was not provided could be to delay public reaction on this and avoid copycat events.
Jump seaters should be mandatory on all flights. On AS2059 the jumpseater maniac was overpowered by the other pilots. Two against one is better than pilot against pilot. The 10 second delay could be explained by a cabin altercation when one pilot saw the other one deliberately perform the cutoff. and frankly having spoken to some of these cabin crew who are quite open about their mental \x91struggles\x92 I can\x92t say I\x92d feel more secure with them sat out of my eye line but within reach of certain critical controls\x85. wasn\x92t the 2 person rule initiated after Germanwings and then quite quickly abandoned because many airlines saw the risks of cabin crew in the flight deck more routinely with a single pilot as more of a risk factor than the alternative? Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Jump Seat |
KSINGH
July 12, 2025, 18:37:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920741 |
as per the report- at *most* 1s apart, particularly significant given that it has been mentioned the recording interval of the DFDR is 1s
also I don\x92t know if we\x92ve had an adequate answer to the fact of what data streams the DFDR records, was it only detecting the electrical signal of fuel cut off or the actual position of the toggles- I don\x92t believe it would be the latter which opens an entirely different rabbit hole Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): DFDR Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Fuel Cutoff Switches |
KSINGH
July 12, 2025, 19:32:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920776 |
Couple of things.
If the red stab trim guards are closed, the switches are in the correct position. After a 78 dual eng failure the RHS instruments return after the APU comes on line and even then it\x92s slowish as all the previous load-shedding gets reversed. There would have been no time anyway. of course when both engines spool down they\x92ll be left in the Boeing equivalent of EMER ELEC, I can\x92t say I know but I would assume this episode take out everything in front of the FO who was PF at the time, the RAT would\x92ve taken time to come online it would\x92ve been a truly startling event, I wonder if that is when the FO went \x91heads inside\x92 and saw the position of the cut offs or cycled them? Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): APU RAT (All) Switch Guards |
KSINGH
July 12, 2025, 19:39:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920780 |
in the instances I know of they were in the cruise and thus the flights were almost entirely unaffected (thrust restored very swiftly) Subjects: None |
KSINGH
July 12, 2025, 21:38:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920854 |
let\x92s be honest, airlines would never suggest topping up their flying deck crew requirements/costs by 50% especially when many (outside of the US) are struggling to get qualified people in the seats as it is Subjects: None |
KSINGH
July 12, 2025, 21:43:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920858 |
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches |
KSINGH
July 12, 2025, 22:04:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920875 |
The fact that
SAIB: NM-18-33 was specifically mentioned, and that Air India's failure to inspect this airframe re the advisory was specifically mentioned, and that the exchange between the pilots specifically included wtte "I didn't", suggests to me that the report would like to hint at maintenance / build problems rather than deliberate pilot action.
I had posted before (and it had been deleted for some reason) that is appears as if air india is taking a substantial hit on their widebody capacity at the moment and keeps cancelling routes right now (the latest being LGW), could they be doing specific extra maintenance/ checks having more insight than almost any other stakeholders at this point? Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): SAIB NM-18-33 Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin |
KSINGH
July 14, 2025, 20:25:00 GMT permalink Post: 11922479 |
The more I ponder on this the more I feel like the final outcome may be very unsatisfying-we may get a detailed report on the how but not the why and the result will become a
Rorschach test- we will apply our own biases and come to our own judgements
already I don\x92t know how we\x92d ever be able to prove intent vs action slip unless there\x92s a \x91note\x92 recovered at one of their homes (but you\x92d have thought that would\x92ve been known already long ago) no one\x92s life is perfect nor can we know what anyone is really dealing with internally vs their external persona Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Action slip |
KSINGH
July 14, 2025, 23:04:00 GMT permalink Post: 11922572 |
I think you\x92re not on your own here. There is a bit of criticism about the initial report withholding certain things and being incomplete but IMO it said what needed to be said in a neutral way. We now know it is a HF accident, not an aeroplane technical one and although I would like to know exactly what happened, I\x92m much less concerned for the 787 and aviation in general, to the point that in this case I\x92ve lost a lot of interest in the eventual conclusion, if there ever is one.
Subjects: None |
KSINGH
July 17, 2025, 12:03:00 GMT permalink Post: 11924346 |
it\x92s hard to justify this and it does just make the AAIB\x92s job more difficult, would the NTSB appreciate Indian entities leaking to the Indian media before a preliminary and then final report? im not saying it\x92s correct but it does only fuel the simmering Indian (domestic) audience\x92s views of a US/Boeing \x91coverup\x92 what new details were actually revealed here, it didn\x92t counter the facts laid out by the AAIB prelim at all so it\x92s not like we can claim the AAIB is covering up and the US has to issue counter factuals (as with the China Eastern 737) Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AAIB (All) NTSB Preliminary Report Wall Street Journal |
KSINGH
July 17, 2025, 12:21:00 GMT permalink Post: 11924361 |
I can fully understand and appreciate the leaking. I have been studying the bull!!!! reporting by India media about the cause of this crash. Former senior pilots, some who flew the B787, tell complete utter nonsense about possible technical issues. Like the engines failed and that was the reason to set both switches to cutoff.
It is important to know who asked ' why did you cutoff'. Because it confirms that captain, who had both hands free, set both switches to CUTOFF for no reason. im not sure how that justifies those with privileged information clearly on the US side leaking undermining the official investigation that is being run with international observers from multiple countries and in line with ICAO guidance I\x92m not saying it is but it gives off more fuel to idea that Boeing has deep sway inside the US elites and institutions your last paragraph is conjecture, we can speculate but the job of the investigators is to be 100% accurate, it\x92s easy for us to sit on the sidelines and throw out whatever theories we like but their responsibility is much higher if US entities aren\x92t happy with the tone/substance of the preliminary report their is a mechanism for them to provide there own findings at a later date, this cloak and dagger selective leaking stuff really is uncalled for Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AAIB (All) Engine Failure (All) Engine Shutdown Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches ICAO Pilot "Why did you cut off" Preliminary Report RUN/CUTOFF |
KSINGH
July 17, 2025, 14:07:00 GMT permalink Post: 11924430 |
Quite right. The NTSB upbraided, warned and sanctioned Boeing over unauthorized release of information (with a somewhat self-defensive spin) in the Alaska 1282 investigation just last year.
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...lines-blowout/ I'm sure that the WSJ believes that its sources are qualified and knowledgeable and that the sources probably believe what they are leaking, but it's a terrible and damaging practice in accident investigations, in this case serving no purpose other than clickbait taking advantage of public curiosity. And there really is nothing new in the "breaking news" story, at least nothing of substance. the AAIB(India) doesn\x92t appear to have tried to play any evasive games and has allowed all stakeholders (OEM, fleeing investigators from multiple countries etc) to be a party the investigation as they are entitled to. That one specific party whether by intent or a lack of ability to keep control of their own personnel has continuously leaked behind the lead investigators and that too not actually providing contrarian views just leaking to present a specific narrative, for reasons we can all surmise, is a genuine concern I remember many questioning the AAIB(India)\x92s ability to run a competent and neutral investigation well it doesn\x92t seem like the US probe it being run in such a fashion there were no immediate safety bulletins recommended in the prelim report, the AAIB/Indian government has done nothing to harm the interest of any OEM, why this rush to create this targeted narrative when human factors investigations by their very nature are more complex and convoluted than pure technical ones? Why can\x92t the facts be determined by the lead investigators? Leaking CVR details is absolutely despicable and I would\x92ve thought a professional pilot\x92s forum would be more outraged by \x91persons familiar with the investigation\x92 mouthing off to the media Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): CVR Human Factors NTSB Preliminary Report Wall Street Journal |