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| LTC8K6
June 12, 2025, 20:50:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899720 |
I think people on the ground have confirmed that the plane took off from the end of the runway, not the middle. So this is likely FR24 incorrect data.
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): FlightRadar24 |
| LTC8K6
June 12, 2025, 20:54:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899725 |
If you don't realize what you did, you might?
Last edited by T28B; 12th June 2025 at 22:38 . Reason: typo correction Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): MAYDAY |
| LTC8K6
June 12, 2025, 22:50:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899809 |
So, looking around the interwebs it seems like the 787 RAT takes 8 seconds to deploy, and only provides full RAT power at 130 knots or better.
Does it seem like the RAT should already be deployed in the videos we have seen, given an 8 second deployment time, and adding in the time needed for the system or pilot to decide it should be deployed? It must take a little time for the engines to spool down and the other power sources to fail after takeoff. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): RAT (All) RAT (Deployment) |
| LTC8K6
June 14, 2025, 21:04:00 GMT permalink Post: 11901829 |
Each time I look at the video it strikes me as a flap retraction below clean climb speed. It looks as if the rate of pitch change and extreme nose high occurred gradually and at a rate which could be the pilot input for deteriorating climb rate based on the corresponding change in wing lift coefficient. I would assume also he was not instantly aware the flaps had been reselected to zero and if he became aware it was only a few seconds from impact. As far as my theory goes I would assume either the Captain commanded "FLAPS UP" erroneously or if he commanded "GEAR UP" the F/O just brain glitched without taking normal care in the cockpit with things like that. A normal procedure but with the same consequences of dealing with an engine fire after V1 IF you misidentify the switch or handle. Thats my opinion. As far as the crew experience it can be recognized the F/O was the weakest link in experience. Nothing new or different than that unless his training show deficiencies managing that cockpit.
The gear and flap controls are not easily confused in the 787. They look nothing alike and are not near each other. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): V1 |
| LTC8K6
June 14, 2025, 21:09:00 GMT permalink Post: 11901833 |
Senior pilot Captain Sumit Sabharwal sent a distress call to the Ahmedabad ATC right after the plane took off. In the five-second audio, the pilot can be heard saying: \x93MAYDAY\x85 MAYDAY\x85 MAYDAY\x85 NO POWER\x85 NO THRUST\x85 GOING DOWN\x85"
Over to you Boeing. Subjects: None |
| LTC8K6
June 14, 2025, 22:56:00 GMT permalink Post: 11901928 |
There was banging prior the failed generator in the 787 Emergency landing....plus loss of altitude, direction, and EE Does all elec load go to the opposite engine? Because if it does and that engine either fails or gets shut down mistakenly ....OOPS no Thrust, no Electrical power, only instruments from APU. If the APU started on climb, we know exactly what occurred....
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): APU Generators/Alternators RAT (All) |
| LTC8K6
June 14, 2025, 23:04:00 GMT permalink Post: 11901939 |
The 787 is far more heavily dependent on electrical power than previous Boeing designs. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Dual Engine Failure Electrical Failure Engine Failure (All) |
| LTC8K6
June 15, 2025, 13:10:00 GMT permalink Post: 11902453 |
Cognitive failure: the brain confuses one motor skill with another. You don’t confuse the switch/knob/lever, rather when you mean to complete one action (say, raise the gear) your brain erroneously decides to complete another motor-action that it knows, ie to raise the Flaps! Nothing to do with similar or adjacent selectors!
I think this was a major electrical failure most likely due to the engines quitting. The 787 is far more heavily dependent on electrical power to run it's systems than previous Boeing planes. It requires about 1.5 megawatts of power according to Wiki. 5X more than previous designs. Things that were done by engine driven pumps/compressors and engine bleed air are all done electrically on the 787. Flight cointrols that were moved hydraulically or pneumatically are moved by electric actuators. Etc. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Electrical Failure |
| LTC8K6
June 15, 2025, 13:23:00 GMT permalink Post: 11902467 |
Trying to keep an open mind, but\x85.
Is no one surprised the lone survivor remembers a bang just before impact, and other things like apparently emergency lights, but has not mentioned the power going from takeoff power to nothing. Even the power change at thrust reduction altitude is often very noticeable in the cabin, so it surprises me nothing about the noise (and startle/panic) of full-power to no-power has been mentioned. I think we are getting into absurd scenarios trying to make the scenario of a simultaneous double engine failure just after liftoff fit, based on perhaps not the best evidence. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All) RAT (All) |
| LTC8K6
June 15, 2025, 14:24:00 GMT permalink Post: 11902501 |
The 787 is reliant on good electrical power and plenty of it and we have signs of electrical system failures on this 787. We have a RAT deployed. We have data loss. We have previous flight reports of electrical problems in the cabin. We have a survivor report of lights flickering and a bang - which could well be the RAT deploying.
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): RAT (All) RAT (Deployment) |
| LTC8K6
June 15, 2025, 14:53:00 GMT permalink Post: 11902525 |
Subjects: None |
| LTC8K6
June 15, 2025, 18:24:00 GMT permalink Post: 11902691 |
Subjects: None |
| LTC8K6
June 15, 2025, 18:41:00 GMT permalink Post: 11902705 |
The biggest news site in Greece claims to have the results of a kind of preliminary report from India AAIB which say that as the plane rotated, the pilot's seat malfunctioned (broken pin) and went suddenly far back forcing the captain to accidentally lower the thrust lever as he already had his hand on it and despite the co-pilots effort to help increase the thrust it was already to late to avoid the stall. I dont believe they would have posted something as serious as this without any credible source cause they are supposed to be a serious news outlet but you never know when stupidity takes over validity. Source is the protothema dot gr site
I'd be surprised if they are mechanically adjusted and held in place by a pin. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AAIB (All) Preliminary Report |
| LTC8K6
June 15, 2025, 18:57:00 GMT permalink Post: 11902719 |
The biggest news site in Greece claims to have the results of a kind of preliminary report from India AAIB which say that as the plane rotated, the pilot's seat malfunctioned (broken pin) and went suddenly far back forcing the captain to accidentally lower the thrust lever as he already had his hand on it and despite the co-pilots effort to help increase the thrust it was already to late to avoid the stall. I dont believe they would have posted something as serious as this without any credible source cause they are supposed to be a serious news outlet but you never know when stupidity takes over validity. Source is the protothema dot gr site
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AAIB (All) Preliminary Report |
| LTC8K6
June 15, 2025, 21:01:00 GMT permalink Post: 11902835 |
I'm surprised nobody is discussing a possible electrical failure in the context of Boeing's quality problems and whistleblowers and so on. Would that be against the PPRUNE rules? If anyone's interested, here's an article to get you started
https://prospect.org/economy/2025-06...hed-air-india/
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Electrical Failure |
| LTC8K6
July 12, 2025, 01:42:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920079 |
Why are we concentrating on the engine switches .?
What happened before this to cause the engines to run down, resulting in the crew trying the documented procedure of turning the switches off then on to restart ?. Basically they ran out of time to resolve the problem. The takeoff run seems to show a normal acceleration to V1. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Relight V1 |
| LTC8K6
July 12, 2025, 02:00:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920091 |
One set of poles is for the circuit power, and one set is for the switch position data. Subjects: None |
| LTC8K6
July 12, 2025, 02:02:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920092 |
The Service Bulletin (link below) referenced on page 6 of the preliminary report describes just that...fuel control switches without detents or what the bulletin describes as a "locking feature" that can be "disengaged" and still allow the switch to function. It's somewhat of a glaring omission that the report did not state the status (detent or not) of the switches on this aircraft. Presumably if no-detend switches were found then an emergency AD would already have been issued.
https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/NM-18...SIB_NM-18-33_1 Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Air Worthiness Directives Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Fuel Cutoff Switches (detent) Preliminary Report |
| LTC8K6
July 12, 2025, 03:07:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920130 |
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin |
| LTC8K6
July 12, 2025, 04:37:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920190 |
I just looked at a picture of the 787 throttle area and I don't see how one would ever confuse the stabilizer cutout switches with the engine fuel cutoff switches. They are completely different in look and feel and operation.
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Fuel Cutoff Switches |