Posts by user "MaybeItIs" [Posts: 43 Total up-votes: 0 Pages: 3]

Sorry, I have to seriously disagree, in the nicest possible way, I hope.

The switches must be accessible - Yes
They are where hands regularly pass over them - a No. As I see it, a certain expression regarding the back end of a male dog comes to mind!
Able to be actioned quickly - arguably, currently, it's much too quickly, IMHO.
Guarded - when it comes to Cerebellum (Yes, please search that word in this thread)-generated actions, that makes zero difference. When the Cerebellum has been trained and learned, it will repeat the most complex sequences you can think of - without you having to think of them. That's the REAL problem that needs to be solved.
Logical - Yes, but really No! Putting them close together can more easily result in the wrong action at times of high stress, confusion, fear, danger, urgency, whatever.

I say they need a major, i.e. Total redesign.

But one of the big problems is that these two switches are used at least a couple of times on every flight. So, they are true Cerebellum Fodder.

However, here's one suggestion. The modern plane is full of sensors, interlocks and logic devices. Use them a bit smarter, I say!

When the plane is on the ground, allow the Fuel Switches to be turned On and Off without debate. But using Air/Ground and /(or?) WoW, when the plane is in the air, the process must be made markedly different. At the very LEAST, make them properly guarded, so a flap must be lifted to action them. And as soon as the flap gets lifted in flight, a very loud alarm and maybe a light is triggered. Then, everybody knows, no need for guessing. Until you or your fellow pilot presses the Confirm button somewhere nearby, the switches can't be moved - or are disabled, or something.

If you don't regularly use this procedure, the Cerebellum won't be so likely to Run It Automatically in a panicked rush. The different process from what you did just at the start of the flight will trip up the cerebellum somewhat, and trigger the Higher Brain to start thinking...: "What? Is this correct?"

How about this?

Subsequent thoughts: The Confirm button would only remain live for a short period, say 3 seconds, during which time, you can operate the switch. Then it resets.
Another idea: Leave the Fuel Cutoff switches right where they are, as they are. But, when in Flight, totally disable them. Alarm if moved. Put the In-Flight Shutoff switches in the overhead panel, with the same kind of aural/visual Confirmation-required warning system permanently operative.

P.P.S. That may not be enough, maybe there needs to be a Takeoff speed transition added - i.e. Before Rotate. Maybe just after V1?

slats11,

Sorry, you missed the risk I'm proposing to mitigate. It's not about malfeasance.

It's about saving us from ourselves - from our "smaller brain" - not what you're probably thinking! If you search this thread, you'll find a number of reports of highly-trained, highly qualified and normally highly competent pilots doing absolutely daft things, for no explicable reason. Even they can't explain how it happened. Here's another pretty good example, which I discussed a bit somewhere here.

https://avherald.com/h?article=48d1e3ae&opt=0

I think understanding the role of the cerebellum and what it does and how it apparently works goes a long way to explaining the seemingly otherwise inexplicable. Have a read up? .

Hello Capn Bloggs,

Happy to oblige.

TBH, I'm no longer so concerned with what really happened inside the cockpit of AI171. What the final report says won't make any difference. I can see some flaws in the Boeing design (don't know Airbus so can't compare), and propose a few ideas to deal with that, and with the fact that we humans are highly flawed. Sometimes, the brain doesn't know what the right hand is doing. That's a wee problem.

My theory FWIW, says this won't have been called at all. And that "it" was done entirely without intention. The intention was to do something else. So, in that case, was it deliberate? I say No. It was an accident.

It was IMO, done with the best of intentions, but resulted in a serious blunder, with the wrong switches getting turned off. By what has been termed here "a slip". I agree with that. As I've mentioned, I now believe that when you know someone (including yourself) is doing something wrong, you seem to be more likely to make a mistake yourself. It's as if you automatically become partners in crime. (Even you and yourself!) Did you read this article? Some of the comments are also well worth reading.

https://avherald.com/h?article=48d1e3ae&opt=0

This [i.e 171] accident (I think the correct term) has absolutely fascinated me, and caused me to think a great deal. My recent posts are not really about 171. Only a result of it.

For the benefit of all. You know how people who have lost loved ones want their death to somehow benefit others? I didn't lose anyone in this crash, but that's a beautiful thing about we flawed humans.

I'll shut up now. Thanks for allowing me to participate.