June 12, 2025, 20:40:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11899710
PPrune Mods.
As a 787 Crewmember, this thread is unreadable and useless. This site used to be a great resource for professionals worldwide to share info, not anymore.
Please create 2 threads, one for those that have some relevant aviation knowledge to this event and another for the endless SLF questions.
PPrune could probably get more site traffic doing so.
As a 787 Crewmember, this thread is unreadable and useless. This site used to be a great resource for professionals worldwide to share info, not anymore.
Please create 2 threads, one for those that have some relevant aviation knowledge to this event and another for the endless SLF questions.
PPrune could probably get more site traffic doing so.
We are flat out trying to keep this one within reason, regardless of your feelings otherwise.
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Thread Moderation
June 13, 2025, 01:52:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11899920
You and others can help if you see anything we miss by either replying with a correction, or Reporting the post for our attention.
Regards
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Thread Moderation
June 14, 2025, 09:36:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11901310
It is obvious to the Mod Team that there is an overwhelming amount of posts from PPRuNers new and old who have not read the thread nor used the Search function before bursting into print.
For the sake of our sanity and personal time this thread is closed for a couple of hours to give you all time to actually read it before launching into your version of events.
For the sake of our sanity and personal time this thread is closed for a couple of hours to give you all time to actually read it before launching into your version of events.
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Thread Closure Thread Moderation
June 14, 2025, 11:37:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11901383
OK back open: but stay on topic, and expect a heavy response to any post that is either speculation or comes from someone who hasn\x92t had the courtesy to check the thread before posting 👍
Subjects: None
June 16, 2025, 10:02:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11903346
Again, this thread has become a Hamsterwheel of repetition and guesswork mixed in with nuggets of information and professionalism.
Until we have the time and ability to sort out which is which it will be closed.
Until we have the time and ability to sort out which is which it will be closed.
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Thread Moderation
June 16, 2025, 20:55:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11903792
This is a new thread with a small selection of the contributions from the original Air India crash thread which is now closed. By no means comprehensive they give a grounding for further discussion here on PPRuNe.
Please remember this is a Professional Pilots forum, and speculation by new signups, SLF and others will only be accepted if proven relevant and accurate.
On a lighter note we achieved our highest number of viewers ever a couple of days ago, highlighting the interest that PPRuNe has as a source of factual information across the Forums. My sincere thanks to our regular members and to the Mod Team for their continued hard work behind the scenes 👍
Please remember this is a Professional Pilots forum, and speculation by new signups, SLF and others will only be accepted if proven relevant and accurate.
On a lighter note we achieved our highest number of viewers ever a couple of days ago, highlighting the interest that PPRuNe has as a source of factual information across the Forums. My sincere thanks to our regular members and to the Mod Team for their continued hard work behind the scenes 👍
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Thread Closure Thread Moderation
June 21, 2025, 05:25:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11907496
Obviously time for yet another reminder to read the threads and refrain from repeating questions and answers that have already been raised.
This is verging on the edge of becoming a Hamsterwheel and We Mods have far more to do on the Site than read back over pages of speculation and guesswork to weed out the gems that really contribute.
This is verging on the edge of becoming a Hamsterwheel and We Mods have far more to do on the Site than read back over pages of speculation and guesswork to weed out the gems that really contribute.
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Thread Moderation
June 21, 2025, 06:36:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11907525
Hoover from the generally respected Pilot Debrief channel put up his analysis.
He analyses the point of rotation looking at the airport layout and using the video with the shack showing the aircraft rotate behind it, in that case the aircraft rotates at a reasonably normal place. That being the case what is the "cloud of particles" that appear to the left of the aircraft ?
He discounts electrical failure affecting both engines due 787 design, and fuel contamination due both engines fed from separate tanks unlikely to affect both engines at the same time.
The possibility that one engine failure occurred at a critical point in the take off and that possibly the wrong engine fuel cutoff switch was pulled.
camera angle with shack and suggested point of rotation
whats this..
He analyses the point of rotation looking at the airport layout and using the video with the shack showing the aircraft rotate behind it, in that case the aircraft rotates at a reasonably normal place. That being the case what is the "cloud of particles" that appear to the left of the aircraft ?
He discounts electrical failure affecting both engines due 787 design, and fuel contamination due both engines fed from separate tanks unlikely to affect both engines at the same time.
The possibility that one engine failure occurred at a critical point in the take off and that possibly the wrong engine fuel cutoff switch was pulled.
camera angle with shack and suggested point of rotation
whats this..
I repeat, do NOT post repeats of discussions already had unless there is something of value which may change or enhance previous posts. This is a prime example of a post which should be vetted and dismissed before pressing Submit Reply 🙈
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Electrical Failure Engine Failure (All) Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Fuel Cutoff Switches Pilot Debrief
June 21, 2025, 06:50:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11907528
We really, really are not helping ourselves by rehashing week old research.
Subjects: None
June 22, 2025, 23:43:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11908911
Having given this thread plenty of time to settle, plus plenty of notice from various Mods, it has become a Hamsterwheel with no beneficial posts contributing to the thread for some time. That is including the dozens of Moderated posts you don't get to see, just in the past 24 hours!
Thread closed until the next official announcement.
Meanwhile, those of you now with time on their hands, please consider updating your Personal Profile to accurately show your professional aviation qualifications. That will both help us when Moderating and show the naysayers how to judge your posts
Thread closed until the next official announcement.
Meanwhile, those of you now with time on their hands, please consider updating your Personal Profile to accurately show your professional aviation qualifications. That will both help us when Moderating and show the naysayers how to judge your posts
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Thread Closure Thread Moderation
June 26, 2025, 16:01:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11911339
https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleseDe...x?PRID=2139785
Status Report on recovery and examination of data from Black Boxes – Air India Flight AI-171
Note the front EAFR is the one with RIPS battery backup.
Status Report on recovery and examination of data from Black Boxes – Air India Flight AI-171
On the evening of 24 June 2025, the team led by DG AAIB with technical members from AAIB and NTSB began the data extraction process. The Crash Protection Module (CPM) from the front black box was safely retrieved, and on 25 June, 2025, the memory module was successfully accessed and its data downloaded at the AAIB Lab.The analysis of CVR and FDR data is underway. These efforts aim to reconstruct the sequence of events leading to the accident and identify contributing factors to enhance aviation safety and prevent future occurrences.
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AAIB (All) AI171 CVR EAFR FDR NTSB RIPS
July 12, 2025, 09:34:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11920422
This has been asked numerous times: please read the Report and it tells you that there were two pilots, ten cabin crew and 230 passengers. It does not say how many were on the flight deck, and none of us is clairvoyant.
Subjects: None
July 14, 2025, 10:18:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11922040
If you want to imply poor Moderation then it would help your case to get your facts straight before claiming such articles as being “confirmatory sources” 🤔 🙈
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): MAYDAY Thread Moderation
July 18, 2025, 07:11:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11924882
Having waded through another series of (essentially) Hamsterwheel rinse and repeat offerings, it is time to give this thread another rest.
Both for the sanity of the Moderation Team and for the professional pilots who shake their heads in amazement at the non professionals offerings before the Mods can do their job, we will revisit this after the weekend, and consider whether to keep it closed.
Avagoodweegend to one and all,
Both for the sanity of the Moderation Team and for the professional pilots who shake their heads in amazement at the non professionals offerings before the Mods can do their job, we will revisit this after the weekend, and consider whether to keep it closed.
Avagoodweegend to one and all,
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Thread Moderation
July 20, 2025, 18:33:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11925921
The full Flight Global article; those here who chose to put PPRuNe and themselves at risk of legal action by their accusations and emotive language may like to reflect and be more accurate in their contributions to this professional pilots forum in future.
US safety chief supports India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau in urging media to avoid ‘premature narratives’ about the 12 June disaster that killed 260 people
The head of the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has criticised recent news stories about the 12 June crash of an Air India Boeing 787-8, aligning with a statement from India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB).
“Recent media reports on the Air India 171 crash are premature and speculative,” NTSB chair Jennifer Homendy said on 18 July. “India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau just released its preliminary report. Investigations of this magnitude take time.”
Homendy does not specify which media reports she takes issue with.
In recent days, The Wall Street Journal and Reuters, citing unnamed sources familiar with US officials’ assessment of evidence, reported that audio from the crashed jet’s cockpit voice recorder indicates the captain had moved the fuel control switches to the “CUTOFF” position. The reports said that the first officer was the pilot who asked why the switches had been moved.
A source who is also familiar with aspects of the investigation confirms that information to FlightGlobal.
Investigators have not released information to support such a scenario.
NTSB chair Jennifer Homendy warns against “speculative” media reports
The 787-8 was operating flight 171 from Ahmedabad to London Gatwick airport. It crashed shortly after taking off, killing 241 of 242 people aboard and 19 people on the ground.
The AAIB’s 11 July preliminary report said that about 3s after taking off, the two cockpit fuel control switches – each controls fuel to one of the jet’s two GE Aerospace GEnx turbofans – were switched to the “CUTOFF” position. The switch for the left-side engine moved first, with the right-side switch moving within about 1s.
The turbofans then lost thrust. One of the two pilots – the report did not specify which – asked the other why he moved the switch; the other then denied doing so.
Starting 10s after the switches were set to “CUTOFF”, both were switched back to “RUN”, causing the turbofans to begin restarting, but not in time to prevent the jet from crashing.
The 787’s flight data recorder noted the moment the actual physical switch moved to the “CUTOFF” position and then when it moved back to the “RUN” position, a source tells FlightGlobal. Those moments were plotted on a graph showing engine thrust falling off after the switches were moved to “CUTOFF”, and then returning after they were moved to “RUN”.
Because that data reflects the physical movement of the switch, a loss of fuel caused by another problem elsewhere in the 787’s electrical system is unlikely, the source says.
The Federal Aviation Administration on 11 July issued a Continued Airworthiness Notification to the International Community (CANIC) saying that the AAIB’s “investigation to date has found no urgent safety concerns related to the engines or airplane systems of the Boeing Model 787-8”.
On 17 July, the AAIB issued an “Appeal”, saying, “It has come to our attention that certain sections of the international media are repeatedly attempting to draw conclusions through selective and unverified reporting”.
“Such actions are irresponsible… We urge both the public and the media to refrain from spreading premature narratives that risk undermining the integrity of the investigative process,” it adds. “The AAIB appeals to all concerned to await publication of the final investigation report.”
Citing that document, the NTSB’s Homendy said on 18 July, “We fully support the AAIB’s public appeal… and will continue to support its ongoing investigation”.
The AAIB’s preliminary report also notes that the FAA issued a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin in December 2018 about a “locking feature” within fuel control switches on several Boeing models, including 787s. The locking feature is a safety device that requires the switches be lifted before being transitioned. It involves raised nubs that the switch must transition over.
A fuel control switch similar to that found on Boeing 787s, showing that the switch must transition over raised bumps
That 2018 bulletin warned about potential “disengagement” of the locking feature, which could allow the switches to “be moved between the two positions without lifting”, potentially causing “inadvertent” engine shutdown.
Though the FAA recommended inspections, its bulletin concluded that issue was “not an unsafe condition that would warrant airworthiness directive”.
The FAA reiterated that position in its 11 July CANIC, saying the fuel control switch design does not pose “an unsafe condition”.
Though the AAIB’s report cited the issue, it drew no link between it and the crash
The head of the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has criticised recent news stories about the 12 June crash of an Air India Boeing 787-8, aligning with a statement from India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB).
“Recent media reports on the Air India 171 crash are premature and speculative,” NTSB chair Jennifer Homendy said on 18 July. “India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau just released its preliminary report. Investigations of this magnitude take time.”
Homendy does not specify which media reports she takes issue with.
In recent days, The Wall Street Journal and Reuters, citing unnamed sources familiar with US officials’ assessment of evidence, reported that audio from the crashed jet’s cockpit voice recorder indicates the captain had moved the fuel control switches to the “CUTOFF” position. The reports said that the first officer was the pilot who asked why the switches had been moved.
A source who is also familiar with aspects of the investigation confirms that information to FlightGlobal.
Investigators have not released information to support such a scenario.
NTSB chair Jennifer Homendy warns against “speculative” media reports
The 787-8 was operating flight 171 from Ahmedabad to London Gatwick airport. It crashed shortly after taking off, killing 241 of 242 people aboard and 19 people on the ground.
The AAIB’s 11 July preliminary report said that about 3s after taking off, the two cockpit fuel control switches – each controls fuel to one of the jet’s two GE Aerospace GEnx turbofans – were switched to the “CUTOFF” position. The switch for the left-side engine moved first, with the right-side switch moving within about 1s.
The turbofans then lost thrust. One of the two pilots – the report did not specify which – asked the other why he moved the switch; the other then denied doing so.
Starting 10s after the switches were set to “CUTOFF”, both were switched back to “RUN”, causing the turbofans to begin restarting, but not in time to prevent the jet from crashing.
The 787’s flight data recorder noted the moment the actual physical switch moved to the “CUTOFF” position and then when it moved back to the “RUN” position, a source tells FlightGlobal. Those moments were plotted on a graph showing engine thrust falling off after the switches were moved to “CUTOFF”, and then returning after they were moved to “RUN”.
Because that data reflects the physical movement of the switch, a loss of fuel caused by another problem elsewhere in the 787’s electrical system is unlikely, the source says.
The Federal Aviation Administration on 11 July issued a Continued Airworthiness Notification to the International Community (CANIC) saying that the AAIB’s “investigation to date has found no urgent safety concerns related to the engines or airplane systems of the Boeing Model 787-8”.
On 17 July, the AAIB issued an “Appeal”, saying, “It has come to our attention that certain sections of the international media are repeatedly attempting to draw conclusions through selective and unverified reporting”.
“Such actions are irresponsible… We urge both the public and the media to refrain from spreading premature narratives that risk undermining the integrity of the investigative process,” it adds. “The AAIB appeals to all concerned to await publication of the final investigation report.”
Citing that document, the NTSB’s Homendy said on 18 July, “We fully support the AAIB’s public appeal… and will continue to support its ongoing investigation”.
The AAIB’s preliminary report also notes that the FAA issued a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin in December 2018 about a “locking feature” within fuel control switches on several Boeing models, including 787s. The locking feature is a safety device that requires the switches be lifted before being transitioned. It involves raised nubs that the switch must transition over.
A fuel control switch similar to that found on Boeing 787s, showing that the switch must transition over raised bumps
That 2018 bulletin warned about potential “disengagement” of the locking feature, which could allow the switches to “be moved between the two positions without lifting”, potentially causing “inadvertent” engine shutdown.
Though the FAA recommended inspections, its bulletin concluded that issue was “not an unsafe condition that would warrant airworthiness directive”.
The FAA reiterated that position in its 11 July CANIC, saying the fuel control switch design does not pose “an unsafe condition”.
Though the AAIB’s report cited the issue, it drew no link between it and the crash
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AAIB (All) Engine Failure (All) Engine Shutdown FAA Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches GEnx (ALL) NTSB Preliminary Report Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin Wall Street Journal
July 20, 2025, 21:34:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11925980
Subjects: None