Someone Somewhere
July 14, 2025, 10:58:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11922018

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Brigadier

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRMman

Actually, we don't know who made the Mayday call.

The mods have previously chosen to delete my post with links to confirmatory sources on this point, so I won't bother here.

Is that the "Captain's friend heard CVR tape" report that came out before the CVR had been read out, or a different source?

The former seems very discredited.

Last edited by Someone Somewhere; 14th July 2025 at 11:17 .

Subjects CVR MAYDAY Thread Moderation

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Someone Somewhere
July 15, 2025, 05:45:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11922651

Quote:

Originally Posted by dingy737

1. Where is the Data showing the TIME STAMP of when each engine parameters FIRST indicated an Engine spooling down. ( N1- N2, RPM. FUEL FLOW. EGT)
2. if the time STAMP of any engine spool down data occurred prior to the first movement of the fuel start lever. Then any subsequent movement of the start levers must be seen as an attempt to restart.
3. so that timeline must be established. More data is required.

This seems to quite clearly answer the question: (from the prelim report)

Quote:

The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 Knots IAS at about 08:08:42
UTC and immediately thereafter , the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned
from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec. The Engine N1
and N2 began to decrease from their take-off values as the fuel supply to the engines was cut
off .

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

Requiring the throttle lever to be at idle seems like a good idea.

That's the Embraer option.

The other option I can imagine is a mechanical stop with an override button, like the landing gear lever. Can't switch the fuel levers off unless you're slow and on the ground, the engine is failed or on fire, or you push override.

Subjects Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Fuel Cutoff Switches Gear Lever Parameters Preliminary Report RUN/CUTOFF Relight Timeline (Preliminary Report)

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Someone Somewhere
July 15, 2025, 08:07:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11922700

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musician

The problem with the switches with hinged covers is that they have a single, "safe" position when they're covered. But the fuel switch is safe at CUTOFF when parked, and safe at RUN when the aircraft is operating, so that won't work.

There are ways to have gates that can be closed in either position (and are perhaps spring-closed), but either they are going to be left open, are a PITA to operate a switch single-handedly, or operating the guard will become part of the muscle memory for operating the switch.

Subjects Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Muscle Memory RUN/CUTOFF Switch Guards

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Someone Somewhere
November 07, 2025, 23:53:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11985044

If that is the lawsuit based on this filing , then you're in for a treat. Same crowd that delivered this 'report' , which seems to be a mash-up of all the various conspiracy theories (aft EAFR fire damaged so must have been a battery fire? Check).

Disappointing for someone with what seem to be remarkable credentials:

Quote:

The founder of the organization is Captain Amit Singh, he is a senior management
professional with over 17000 hours on Boeing - 777 and Airbus - 320. He has
also been associated with the start-up of two airlines, viz Air Asia and IndiGo,
and has held the posts of: Chief of Safety, AirAsia, Director Flight Operations,
AirAsia, Chief Pilot Training, IndiGo and Fleet Captain Safety/ Technical
Interglobe Aviation Ltd. He is a Fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society,
London,

It is technically just garbage.

Subjects EAFR

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Someone Somewhere
November 28, 2025, 20:11:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11997382

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musician

original source: https://thefederal.com/category/busi...failure-217674

Quote:

The Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT), a critical post-crash distress beacon, was never activated, as per the AAIB report. It was recovered intact in the wreckage, yet it was silent.A CCS/core network failure would not by itself stop the transmission from an ELT’s automatic g-switch — which is a gravity (g) switch with a sensor that detects sudden changes in acceleration (g-forces) that typically occur during a crash.

That is, unless the ELT’s antenna and wiring had melted in a fire — and one possible pointer to that is a Category A fault logged on AI 171’s Nitrogen Generation System (NGS), a safety feature Boeing added to prevent fuel tank fires in the aftermath of the Trans World Airlines Flight 800’s midair explosion due to a central fuel tank ignition in 1996.

The NGS works by continuously flooding the tail fuel tank’s ullage (the empty space above the fuel) with nitrogen-rich air, displacing oxygen and thereby preventing the build-up of flammable vapours.

If the NGS were not functioning, the oxygen levels around the aft-fuel tank bay may have been dangerously high. In that scenario, even a small spark—possibly from an electric arc or surge—could ignite a localised fuel-air vapour fire. That would have burnt the wiring and antenna of the ELT and wiring, connectors, and housing of tail-section black box or the aft Enhanced Airborne Flight Recorder (EAFR). And this scenario would be in line with the AAIB report, which shows the tail section was more structurally intact compared to the nose.

We're back to this rubbish.

There's a good 20m of cabin between the centre fuel tanks (there is no 'aft fuel tank bay' on a 787) and the ELT/aft EAFR which are IIRC more-or-less above the rear doors.

The rest isn't much better.

I also see no mention of the fact that virtually everything in the CCS/CDN/CCRs is at least duplicated.

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 29th November 2025 at 03:07 . Reason: Add source of the quote

Subjects AAIB (All) DFDR EAFR

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Someone Somewhere
November 29, 2025, 01:17:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11997509

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowRun 6-3

[...]

Now, why rehearse these crosss-references here? -- because I'm trying to find out if a comment I read earlier today on the Wall Street Journal website was accurate or not. That commenter, besides assailing the leaks of information from the investigation (and impliedly, the proliferation of screwball "analyses', possibly lofted into the ethersphere by Artificial Typing Pools) asserted that there probably have not been other instances where a properly constituted and convened Annex 13 accident panel was challenged in ligitation in the investigating country. If there are one or more such cases like the one filed in India which have proceeded somewhere else, oh boy would I have a guest lecture to pitch to certain Air and Space Law faculties. And similarly, precedent for a parent or anyone related to an aviator who perished in a civil aviation accident filing a petition seeking to exonerate their family member - has this ever been litigated at all, anywhere?

I assume you're familiar with the events surrounding the Mt Erebus disaster ? (I'm not, really).

Subjects Annex 13 Wall Street Journal

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Someone Somewhere July 14, 2025, 10:58:00 GMT permalink Post: 11922018	Quote: Originally Posted by The Brigadier Quote: Originally Posted by SRMman Actually, we don't know who made the Mayday call. The mods have previously chosen to delete my post with links to confirmatory sources on this point, so I won't bother here. Is that the "Captain's friend heard CVR tape" report that came out before the CVR had been read out, or a different source? The former seems very discredited. Last edited by Someone Somewhere; 14th July 2025 at 11:17 . Subjects CVR MAYDAY Thread Moderation Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 1 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Someone Somewhere July 15, 2025, 05:45:00 GMT permalink Post: 11922651	Quote: Originally Posted by dingy737 1. Where is the Data showing the TIME STAMP of when each engine parameters FIRST indicated an Engine spooling down. ( N1- N2, RPM. FUEL FLOW. EGT) 2. if the time STAMP of any engine spool down data occurred prior to the first movement of the fuel start lever. Then any subsequent movement of the start levers must be seen as an attempt to restart. 3. so that timeline must be established. More data is required. This seems to quite clearly answer the question: (from the prelim report) Quote: The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 Knots IAS at about 08:08:42 UTC and immediately thereafter , the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec. The Engine N1 and N2 began to decrease from their take-off values as the fuel supply to the engines was cut off . Quote: Originally Posted by LTC8K6 Requiring the throttle lever to be at idle seems like a good idea. That's the Embraer option. The other option I can imagine is a mechanical stop with an override button, like the landing gear lever. Can't switch the fuel levers off unless you're slow and on the ground, the engine is failed or on fire, or you push override. Subjects Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Fuel Cutoff Switches Gear Lever Parameters Preliminary Report RUN/CUTOFF Relight Timeline (Preliminary Report) Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 2 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Someone Somewhere July 15, 2025, 08:07:00 GMT permalink Post: 11922700	Quote: Originally Posted by Musician The problem with the switches with hinged covers is that they have a single, "safe" position when they're covered. But the fuel switch is safe at CUTOFF when parked, and safe at RUN when the aircraft is operating, so that won't work. There are ways to have gates that can be closed in either position (and are perhaps spring-closed), but either they are going to be left open, are a PITA to operate a switch single-handedly, or operating the guard will become part of the muscle memory for operating the switch. Subjects Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Muscle Memory RUN/CUTOFF Switch Guards Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 2 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Someone Somewhere November 07, 2025, 23:53:00 GMT permalink Post: 11985044	If that is the lawsuit based on this filing , then you're in for a treat. Same crowd that delivered this 'report' , which seems to be a mash-up of all the various conspiracy theories (aft EAFR fire damaged so must have been a battery fire? Check). Disappointing for someone with what seem to be remarkable credentials: Quote: The founder of the organization is Captain Amit Singh, he is a senior management professional with over 17000 hours on Boeing - 777 and Airbus - 320. He has also been associated with the start-up of two airlines, viz Air Asia and IndiGo, and has held the posts of: Chief of Safety, AirAsia, Director Flight Operations, AirAsia, Chief Pilot Training, IndiGo and Fleet Captain Safety/ Technical Interglobe Aviation Ltd. He is a Fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society, London, It is technically just garbage. Subjects EAFR Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. No recorded likes for this post (could be before pprune supported 'likes'). Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Someone Somewhere November 28, 2025, 20:11:00 GMT permalink Post: 11997382	Quote: Originally Posted by Musician original source: https://thefederal.com/category/busi...failure-217674 Quote: The Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT), a critical post-crash distress beacon, was never activated, as per the AAIB report. It was recovered intact in the wreckage, yet it was silent.A CCS/core network failure would not by itself stop the transmission from an ELT’s automatic g-switch — which is a gravity (g) switch with a sensor that detects sudden changes in acceleration (g-forces) that typically occur during a crash. That is, unless the ELT’s antenna and wiring had melted in a fire — and one possible pointer to that is a Category A fault logged on AI 171’s Nitrogen Generation System (NGS), a safety feature Boeing added to prevent fuel tank fires in the aftermath of the Trans World Airlines Flight 800’s midair explosion due to a central fuel tank ignition in 1996. The NGS works by continuously flooding the tail fuel tank’s ullage (the empty space above the fuel) with nitrogen-rich air, displacing oxygen and thereby preventing the build-up of flammable vapours. If the NGS were not functioning, the oxygen levels around the aft-fuel tank bay may have been dangerously high. In that scenario, even a small spark—possibly from an electric arc or surge—could ignite a localised fuel-air vapour fire. That would have burnt the wiring and antenna of the ELT and wiring, connectors, and housing of tail-section black box or the aft Enhanced Airborne Flight Recorder (EAFR). And this scenario would be in line with the AAIB report, which shows the tail section was more structurally intact compared to the nose. We're back to this rubbish. There's a good 20m of cabin between the centre fuel tanks (there is no 'aft fuel tank bay' on a 787) and the ELT/aft EAFR which are IIRC more-or-less above the rear doors. The rest isn't much better. I also see no mention of the fact that virtually everything in the CCS/CDN/CCRs is at least duplicated. Last edited by Senior Pilot; 29th November 2025 at 03:07 . Reason: Add source of the quote Subjects AAIB (All) DFDR EAFR Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 4 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.
Someone Somewhere November 29, 2025, 01:17:00 GMT permalink Post: 11997509	Quote: Originally Posted by WillowRun 6-3 [...] Now, why rehearse these crosss-references here? -- because I'm trying to find out if a comment I read earlier today on the Wall Street Journal website was accurate or not. That commenter, besides assailing the leaks of information from the investigation (and impliedly, the proliferation of screwball "analyses', possibly lofted into the ethersphere by Artificial Typing Pools) asserted that there probably have not been other instances where a properly constituted and convened Annex 13 accident panel was challenged in ligitation in the investigating country. If there are one or more such cases like the one filed in India which have proceeded somewhere else, oh boy would I have a guest lecture to pitch to certain Air and Space Law faculties. And similarly, precedent for a parent or anyone related to an aviator who perished in a civil aviation accident filing a petition seeking to exonerate their family member - has this ever been litigated at all, anywhere? I assume you're familiar with the events surrounding the Mt Erebus disaster ? (I'm not, really). Subjects Annex 13 Wall Street Journal Links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context. 1 recorded likes for this post. Reply to this quoting this original post. You need to be logged in. Not available on closed threads.

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