aerobat77
June 13, 2025, 13:44:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900472

Question is why both engines lost power . Foreign object ingestion , contaminated fuel or both cutoff levels operated ? We do not know .

Any autothrust discussion is misleading since every pilot in that situation will firewall the levers whatever thrust reduction was selected for TO . the same is true for the RAT discussion- if enough hydraulic pressure was generated or not . The plane pitched up last second so there obviously was control until the end . Of course , without energy pulling alone will not bring you anywhere .

Why did both engines fail the same second as they would be cut off ???

Subjects Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Fuel Cutoff Switches Hydraulic Failure (All) RAT (All)

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aerobat77
June 19, 2025, 20:11:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11906283

Quote:

Originally Posted by za9ra22

Even if this were a possibility, would it not be almost certain other aircraft operating from this departure point would suffer similar problems too - even if not at the TO/climb-out phase of their flights?

Murphy . Maybe this was the first aircraft to receive fuel from a faulty storage tank . After that the airport was closed and nobody departed on this fuel ...

Most other here discussed scenarios are nonsense , e.g the system would simply ignore a cutoff command with thrust levers above idle .

Subjects Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches

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aerobat77
June 19, 2025, 21:13:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11906330

Quote:

Originally Posted by EXDAC

Are you asserting that "the system would simply ignore a cutoff command with thrust levers above idle" is a nonsense statement?
or
Are you asserting that "the system would simply ignore a cutoff command with thrust levers above idle" is a description of how the system behaves?

sorry if it was not clear : when you move the switches to cutoff and the thrust levers are above idle imho the engines would NOT cutoff , the command would be ignored .

Subjects Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches

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aerobat77
June 19, 2025, 22:07:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11906374

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer

Im pretty certain in those conditions the engines will shutdown. Haven\x92t flown the 787, but every other plane would and for good reason\x97how do you deal with an uncontrollable engine?

you follow the shutdown procedures , one of the first items is to retard the power lever to idle . With levers in idle they will shutdown , above idle they will not .

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aerobat77
July 12, 2025, 00:19:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11919981

I operated such guarded pull-move switches on several plane types uncounted times and not a single time in my entire pilot career i had a situation that such a switch "sits" on top of the locking gate and suddenly snaps by itself .
It is either positivly on or off .

In theory i could with much fantasy imagine dirt around the locking gate that keeps it pulled where you believe its latched but imaging that both switches were sitting on top of the gate and snapped back at the very moment of rotation is too much fantasy for me .

Further , even with a non working locking gate such a switch would never move by accleration forces of the plane alone , it needs positive manual input .

their position roughly behind the thrust levers does not offer any space to store there lets say your phone which slips down and moves them .

one more point : during the very moment of rotation there is normally not a single reason to change anything in the vicinity of the center console at all to explain why you even had your hands there .

Subjects Switch Guards

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aerobat77
July 12, 2025, 08:43:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11920297

We can be sure this switches and their locking mechanism were carefully inspected in the wreckage .

since there is no grounding of the 787 fleet i think nobody considers the switches were defective but it seems to be clear for the investigators they were pulled and switched to cutoff by pilot action .

The investigation probably now concentrates by whom of them both and to find out if it was a catastrophic operation error in a mental blackout or a concious , deliberate action .

Subjects Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches

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aerobat77
July 14, 2025, 13:55:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11922178

It can be said that in private talks between pilot colleques there is a clear opinion what the true reason for this tragic crash was , but due to the magnitude of this event such talks are held non public .

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aerobat77
July 15, 2025, 12:36:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11922860

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ripley

My thoughts, without any weighting or inference are that they were:
1. moved deliberately to shutdown the engines
2. moved unintentionally and ended up shutting down the engines

Following this logic you will never know . The FDR can only record what switch was moved to what position but it cannot say what true intentions the pilot had by doing this .

Subjects FDR

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aerobat77
July 15, 2025, 14:27:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11922943

Quote:

Originally Posted by etrang

What might account for the much slower switch on, especially given the serious nature of the situation?

when you see both engines quitting right after takeoff you might be a bit shocked and perplexed . You also will struggle to imagine its your colleque who just switched both off .

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