ahmetdouas
2025-06-12T15:25:00
permalink Post: 11899336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

The loss of lift would begin immediately.

It looks like they used up an awful lot of runway so potentially incorrect performance and thrust setting, incorrect flap setting, chuck in a temperature inversion or changing winds too if you like and mistakenly retracting flaps instead of the gear could well be the last orifice of the Emmental.

Agree 10000% this is what I feel the most likely thing is. No indication of engine failure, no indication of bird strike, no indication of Ram Air deployed (would it even have time to deploy? The plane crashed like 30 seconds after take off) The take off run was way long, low power/flaps misconfig. I think we will find the reason out very quickly.

Subjects: Bird Strike Engine Failure (All) Flap Setting Flaps (All) Flaps vs Gear

3 users liked this post.

ahmetdouas
2025-06-12T15:37:00
permalink Post: 11899359

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfss

You certainly should try that’s for sure. ANC and all that good stuff! In a panic it certainly is possible to just pull the wrong one. I’m not saying that’s what’s happened, to me it seems like dual engine failure, practically simultaneously.

No the plane barely took off the runway, low power setting/bad flaps. Unless you are saying a double engine failure before take off but seriously how likely is that? It's much more plausible to mess up the take off settings we have seen it many times before. But I think we will find out soon, no need to speculate too much.

Subjects: Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All)

ahmetdouas
2025-06-12T15:40:00
permalink Post: 11899366

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfss

But why is the RAT extended? Any 787 drivers able to confirm under what conditions the RAT automatically deploys?

Who said it is deployed? I don't see it deployed. How would it even have time to deploy, it crashed within 30 seconds!

Subjects: RAT (All) RAT (Deployment)

ahmetdouas
2025-06-12T15:45:00
permalink Post: 11899375

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfss

it is quite literally imaged, and the fact that the 787 passing in video sounds nothing like a jet and more like a T6

Can't see anything

Subjects: None

2 users liked this post.

ahmetdouas
2025-06-12T15:47:00
permalink Post: 11899380

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfss

Need the full quality one mate. Also I believe at that angle the RAT is in line with the gear

Doubt it, let's see. Hope the info is released asap, they should have all the data very soon

Subjects: RAT (All)

ahmetdouas
2025-06-12T15:49:00
permalink Post: 11899386

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahmetdouas

Doubt it, let's see. Hope the info is released asap, they should have all the data very soon

Typical media already taking a dig at Boeing

Subjects: None

ahmetdouas
2025-06-12T18:05:00
permalink Post: 11899553

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG1

Looking at the video of the takeoff roll, it seemed normal, normal rotation, normal initial climb. Other incidents with incorrect performance data or incorrect flap setting (especially flapless) resulted in an extended rotation phase, often with a tailstrike which doesn't seem to be the case here. So the flaps were probably set correctly.

This aircraft then climbed okay but then 3 things happened

1. They didn't raise the gear (maybe due distraction)
2. They apparently called a mayday for an engine problem
3. The aircraft started to sink and continued to do so until ground impact

The videos and the flight path don't seem to show lateral deviation or rudder application but if they called mayday for an engine problem we've got to go with that.

Perhaps the flaps were retracted early but I don't see any pitch change, just sink.

As the aircraft is certified to fly on a single engine, it should have done so. That it didn't seems to indicate that the other engine also stopped developing the required thrust.

Whether it was shut down unintentionally or damaged due to some environmental factor remains to be seen but my moneys on inadvertent shutdown.

nothing was normal the plane rotated right at the end of the runway far too late and barely climbed at all for 10 seconds before falling 20 seconds and finally crashing 30 seconds after take off.

The most obvious answer is low power/flaps setting if the engines were weird they would have probably aborted take off. Bird strike/engine issue during take off roll after v1? Super unlikely but never say never

Subjects: Flap Setting Flaps (All) Mayday Takeoff Roll

ahmetdouas
2025-06-12T18:09:00
permalink Post: 11899555

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobdxb

Primary trigger: Loss of all four AC power sources.

These include:
- Left Integrated Drive Generator (IDG)
- Right IDG
- Left Backup Generator
- Right Backup Generator
  Engine failure alone does not trigger the RAT, must be all of above

and people are saying this happened all at the same time within 30-45 seconds ?

Subjects: Engine Failure (All) Generators/Alternators RAT (All) RAT (Deployment)

ahmetdouas
2025-06-12T18:44:00
permalink Post: 11899592

Quote:

Originally Posted by simba747

Could it be an engine failure after take off with fire warning and pic switches the wrong engine off?

the plane took off too slowly the issue was from before the plane left the air

Subjects: Engine Failure (All) Wrong Engine

ahmetdouas
2025-06-12T20:01:00
permalink Post: 11899683

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG1

Are you familiar with balanced runway performance? Are you a heavy jet pilot? The rotation was normal. The aircraft definitely seems to have reached screen height. If so, it rotated at that position by design. It's initial climb seemed normal, notwithstanding it's duration, obviously until it stopped climbing..

Well, that's what one of the pilots reported in his mayday transmission.

no way even with balanced engine performance you do not take off with no runway to spare you always leave some margin something was wrong from the start, whether that being flaps (which look like it from pics) or derated engine thrust. Something else may have happened, let\x92s see. Whatever the case that was not a normal take off roll

Subjects: Mayday

ahmetdouas 2025-06-12T15:25:00 permalink Post: 11899336	Quote: Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan The loss of lift would begin immediately. It looks like they used up an awful lot of runway so potentially incorrect performance and thrust setting, incorrect flap setting, chuck in a temperature inversion or changing winds too if you like and mistakenly retracting flaps instead of the gear could well be the last orifice of the Emmental. Agree 10000% this is what I feel the most likely thing is. No indication of engine failure, no indication of bird strike, no indication of Ram Air deployed (would it even have time to deploy? The plane crashed like 30 seconds after take off) The take off run was way long, low power/flaps misconfig. I think we will find the reason out very quickly. Subjects: Bird Strike Engine Failure (All) Flap Setting Flaps (All) Flaps vs Gear 3 users liked this post.
ahmetdouas 2025-06-12T15:37:00 permalink Post: 11899359	Quote: Originally Posted by Golfss You certainly should try that’s for sure. ANC and all that good stuff! In a panic it certainly is possible to just pull the wrong one. I’m not saying that’s what’s happened, to me it seems like dual engine failure, practically simultaneously. No the plane barely took off the runway, low power setting/bad flaps. Unless you are saying a double engine failure before take off but seriously how likely is that? It's much more plausible to mess up the take off settings we have seen it many times before. But I think we will find out soon, no need to speculate too much. Subjects: Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All)
ahmetdouas 2025-06-12T15:40:00 permalink Post: 11899366	Quote: Originally Posted by Golfss But why is the RAT extended? Any 787 drivers able to confirm under what conditions the RAT automatically deploys? Who said it is deployed? I don't see it deployed. How would it even have time to deploy, it crashed within 30 seconds! Subjects: RAT (All) RAT (Deployment)
ahmetdouas 2025-06-12T15:45:00 permalink Post: 11899375	Quote: Originally Posted by Golfss it is quite literally imaged, and the fact that the 787 passing in video sounds nothing like a jet and more like a T6 Can't see anything Subjects: None 2 users liked this post.
ahmetdouas 2025-06-12T15:47:00 permalink Post: 11899380	Quote: Originally Posted by Golfss Need the full quality one mate. Also I believe at that angle the RAT is in line with the gear Doubt it, let's see. Hope the info is released asap, they should have all the data very soon Subjects: RAT (All)
ahmetdouas 2025-06-12T15:49:00 permalink Post: 11899386	Quote: Originally Posted by ahmetdouas Doubt it, let's see. Hope the info is released asap, they should have all the data very soon Typical media already taking a dig at Boeing Subjects: None
ahmetdouas 2025-06-12T18:05:00 permalink Post: 11899553	Quote: Originally Posted by JG1 Looking at the video of the takeoff roll, it seemed normal, normal rotation, normal initial climb. Other incidents with incorrect performance data or incorrect flap setting (especially flapless) resulted in an extended rotation phase, often with a tailstrike which doesn't seem to be the case here. So the flaps were probably set correctly. This aircraft then climbed okay but then 3 things happened 1. They didn't raise the gear (maybe due distraction) 2. They apparently called a mayday for an engine problem 3. The aircraft started to sink and continued to do so until ground impact The videos and the flight path don't seem to show lateral deviation or rudder application but if they called mayday for an engine problem we've got to go with that. Perhaps the flaps were retracted early but I don't see any pitch change, just sink. As the aircraft is certified to fly on a single engine, it should have done so. That it didn't seems to indicate that the other engine also stopped developing the required thrust. Whether it was shut down unintentionally or damaged due to some environmental factor remains to be seen but my moneys on inadvertent shutdown. nothing was normal the plane rotated right at the end of the runway far too late and barely climbed at all for 10 seconds before falling 20 seconds and finally crashing 30 seconds after take off. The most obvious answer is low power/flaps setting if the engines were weird they would have probably aborted take off. Bird strike/engine issue during take off roll after v1? Super unlikely but never say never Subjects: Flap Setting Flaps (All) Mayday Takeoff Roll
ahmetdouas 2025-06-12T18:09:00 permalink Post: 11899555	Quote: Originally Posted by bobdxb Primary trigger: Loss of all four AC power sources. These include: Left Integrated Drive Generator (IDG) Right IDG Left Backup Generator Right Backup Generator Engine failure alone does not trigger the RAT, must be all of above and people are saying this happened all at the same time within 30-45 seconds ? Subjects: Engine Failure (All) Generators/Alternators RAT (All) RAT (Deployment)
ahmetdouas 2025-06-12T18:44:00 permalink Post: 11899592	Quote: Originally Posted by simba747 Could it be an engine failure after take off with fire warning and pic switches the wrong engine off? the plane took off too slowly the issue was from before the plane left the air Subjects: Engine Failure (All) Wrong Engine
ahmetdouas 2025-06-12T20:01:00 permalink Post: 11899683	Quote: Originally Posted by JG1 Are you familiar with balanced runway performance? Are you a heavy jet pilot? The rotation was normal. The aircraft definitely seems to have reached screen height. If so, it rotated at that position by design. It's initial climb seemed normal, notwithstanding it's duration, obviously until it stopped climbing.. Well, that's what one of the pilots reported in his mayday transmission. no way even with balanced engine performance you do not take off with no runway to spare you always leave some margin something was wrong from the start, whether that being flaps (which look like it from pics) or derated engine thrust. Something else may have happened, let\x92s see. Whatever the case that was not a normal take off roll Subjects: Mayday

Posts by user "ahmetdouas" [Posts: 10 Total up-votes: 5 Pages: 1]