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krismiler
2025-06-12T09:28:00 permalink Post: 11898933 |
Exactly what I was thinking, landing gear still down at a height it would normally be retracted and the wing clean before normal acceleration altitude suggests just that. F/O with 1100 hours total time might make a mistake like that, although no one is immune.
Subjects: Gear Retraction |
krismiler
2025-06-12T10:03:00 permalink Post: 11898984 |
Airbus FBW will give you alpha lock where the slats won't retract if the AoA is too high or the airspeed too low.
Subjects: FBW 1 user liked this post. |
krismiler
2025-06-13T00:30:00 permalink Post: 11899865 |
Here's another YouTube presentation.
Similar to the Emirates crash following the attempted go around in DXB, momentum can be converted into altitude until speed runs out and gravity takes over.
Yes. But I have not flown this scenario in the sim. Way too many protection to take off without proper configuration which leads me to believe loss of lift due to flap retraction. 1100 hr FO ……..
Quote Last edited by Senior Pilot; 13th Jun 2025 at 01:29 . Reason: Both videos have been online here for many hours. Please read the thread Subjects: Flap Retraction Flaps (All) |
krismiler
2025-06-13T12:11:00 permalink Post: 11900426 |
Survivor and eye witness recollections can be very unreliable and need to be treated with caution. There is easy access to the flight data recorders so hopefully it won't be too long before a preliminary report is out. Boeing must be praying for the cause to be pilot error, after the way in which the company handled the crashes of the B737 MAX, the FAA won't be impressed with a video of the CEO flying onboard and telling everyone how safe the aircraft is. Anything aircraft related and you can guarantee a worldwide grounding of the type, they won't be flying while Boeing works on a software fix.
Subjects: FAA Preliminary Report |
krismiler
2025-06-13T23:20:00 permalink Post: 11900992 |
Gear possibly not selected up due to startle effect after a major event.
Bird strike unlikely to knock out both engines unless there is a flock of them, you might get a single bird into one engine but the odds of two birds each hitting separate engines are pretty long. Aircraft often yaw slightly after takeoff, particularly with a crosswind which may be stronger in the air than on the ground. Air India have had issues with pilot training and standards, reports not too long ago of Indian flight schools selling logbook hours which didn't involve any time in an aircraft. Numerous reports of cabin maintenance issues with Air India, if they can't fix the seats and IFE possibly they can't fix other things. These days, high resolution cameras aren't prohibitively expensive and installing a few at airports would be better than mobile phone footage. Wouldn't an incorrect altitude setting pitch the nose downwards and keep power on for the aircraft to accelerate ? Boeing philosophy is for the pilot to have ultimate control of the aircraft, Airbus try to protect the aircraft from pilot error. Inadvertent flap retraction on an Airbus will result in the slats remaining out and TOGA, which whilst not a guarantee, has saved a few necks. Possible issue with the particular type of engines fitted to that aircraft, even worse would be an aircraft issue which would have had the same result regardless of the engine manufacturer. The B787 has enough OEBs on it to fill up a small binder if printed out, some of which state that the issue is known about and the company is working on it. Hopefully, given the time that the aircraft has been in service, it won't be a systemic problem suddenly coming to light in the way MCAS did on the B737 MAX relatively soon after EIS. Subjects: Bird Strike Flap Retraction Flaps (All) TOGA |
krismiler
2025-06-14T00:38:00 permalink Post: 11901031 |
Does the B787 have auto flap retract ? Possibly a fault in the system could cause the flaps to retract during the take off run which would not give a configuration warning at the start if they were set correctly. Aircraft uses more runway than normal which it seems to have done, crew become aware of the problem near rotation and miss retracting the landing gear while trying to work out what's going on.
Subjects: Gear Retraction |
krismiler
2025-06-21T00:59:00 permalink Post: 11907419 |
It's starting to look more like a massive electrical or computer issue which resulted in both engines failing, the landing gear may have been left down longer than normal due to startle effect.
It could be maintenance related or a latent condition in the B787 which only occurred due to the required factors all being present on this occasion i.e. the holes in the Swiss cheese all lined up. Boeing and Air India will be wanting to blame each other, hopefully having the UK AAIB involved will provide a balance as they don't have a dog in the fight. If this turns out to be another MCAS, it will be difficult for Boeing to continue in it's present form. The B787 has been beset with problems since its introduction, the B777X has had numerous issues during development and the B737 is overdue for replacement. Airlines are starting to drop Boeing due to quality, safety and delivery issues. China is on the rise and if the C919 proves itself, it might be the main alternative to the A320. Last edited by krismiler; 21st Jun 2025 at 01:19 . Subjects: AAIB (All) AAIB (UK) Electrical Failure Gear Retraction |
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