limahotel
June 13, 2025, 14:29:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900570

Dual engine failure?

Why are people still considering a flap/gear mix-up? If that were the case, I\x92d expect that with both engines running, one should be able to compensate for the loss of lift by increasing angle of attack and thrust - the latter might not even needed with TO thrust.

At this point, a dual engine failure seems like a much more plausible explanation. As for what might have caused it, I honestly don\x92t know.

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All)

limahotel
June 13, 2025, 17:47:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11900736

Quote:

Originally Posted by go-around flap 15

Limahotel...

Why do you expect that? Are you in posession of the takeoff performance figures for this flight and the 2nd segment climb calculations? You are attributing something to not be possible simply due to an expectation that it can not be so?

What do you expect that the clean maneuvering speed is when compared to takeoff flap in this instance?

You may be right, you may be wrong. As may I - but to dismiss a potential and possible theory because you ' expect ' that increasing thrust and AoA would be enough is quite short sighted!

With all due respect, based on the videos released so far, it appears the aircraft had no thrust\x97even without considering the sound of a deployed RAT. I could be mistaken, of course, but a flap/gear configuration error doesn\x92t strike me as a likely cause.

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): RAT (All) RAT (Deployment)

limahotel
June 15, 2025, 15:45:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11902574

Seat sliding backward during rotation?

Do all 787s come with electrically adjustable seats, or is that still an option like on older models?

There\x92s a comment (user jepper) on AvHerald mentioning that the captain\x92s seat inadvertently slid backward (due to failure of the aft locking mechanism - is there such a thing on electrically adjustable seats?), which supposedly caused the captain to pull the thrust levers to idle during rotation. That said, I\x92m struggling to understand why his hand would even be on the thrust levers at Vr.

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AvHerald

limahotel
June 15, 2025, 19:24:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11902747

Quote:

Originally Posted by matiagr

The biggest news site in Greece claims to have the results of a kind of preliminary report from India AAIB which say that as the plane rotated, the pilot's seat malfunctioned (broken pin) and went suddenly far back forcing the captain to accidentally lower the thrust lever as he already had his hand on it and despite the co-pilots effort to help increase the thrust it was already to late to avoid the stall. I dont believe they would have posted something as serious as this without any credible source cause they are supposed to be a serious news outlet but you never know when stupidity takes over validity. Source is the protothema dot gr site

I saw the comment stating the above on AHerald (giving a detailed timeline of events). But why would the captain keep his hand on thrust levers at Vr? Also, can electrically adjustable seats suddenly just slide backwards? Additionally, this doesn't account for the RAT deployment. If they had truly firewalled the throttles afterward, we would expect to see a pitch-up moment\x97which isn\x92t evident in the video (at least to me). Perhaps a nose-down trim could have counteracted it, but that seems like a bit of a stretch.

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AAIB (All) Preliminary Report RAT (All) RAT (Deployment) Timeline (Preliminary Report)

limahotel
July 11, 2025, 22:36:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11919926

Quote:

Originally Posted by violator

And for those who scoff at the possibility of the PM inadvertently operating the cutoff switches (which is done as frequently as operating the gear lever), I\x92d remind you that more than one Airbus has landed with its parking brake on after the PM inadvertently set it rather than arming the spoilers.

Even more serious incidents have occurred, such as the Luxair\x92s accidental retraction of the landing gear during takeoff rotation, leading to a failed liftoff:
https://avherald.com/h?article=48d1e3ae&opt=0

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Gear Lever

limahotel June 13, 2025, 14:29:00 GMT permalink Post: 11900570	Dual engine failure? Why are people still considering a flap/gear mix-up? If that were the case, I\x92d expect that with both engines running, one should be able to compensate for the loss of lift by increasing angle of attack and thrust - the latter might not even needed with TO thrust. At this point, a dual engine failure seems like a much more plausible explanation. As for what might have caused it, I honestly don\x92t know. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All)
limahotel June 13, 2025, 17:47:00 GMT permalink Post: 11900736	Quote: Originally Posted by go-around flap 15 Limahotel... Why do you expect that? Are you in posession of the takeoff performance figures for this flight and the 2nd segment climb calculations? You are attributing something to not be possible simply due to an expectation that it can not be so? What do you expect that the clean maneuvering speed is when compared to takeoff flap in this instance? You may be right, you may be wrong. As may I - but to dismiss a potential and possible theory because you ' *expect* ' that increasing thrust and AoA would be enough is quite short sighted! With all due respect, based on the videos released so far, it appears the aircraft had no thrust\x97even without considering the sound of a deployed RAT. I could be mistaken, of course, but a flap/gear configuration error doesn\x92t strike me as a likely cause. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): RAT (All) RAT (Deployment)
limahotel June 15, 2025, 15:45:00 GMT permalink Post: 11902574	Seat sliding backward during rotation? Do all 787s come with electrically adjustable seats, or is that still an option like on older models? There\x92s a comment (user jepper) on AvHerald mentioning that the captain\x92s seat inadvertently slid backward (due to failure of the aft locking mechanism - is there such a thing on electrically adjustable seats?), which supposedly caused the captain to pull the thrust levers to idle during rotation. That said, I\x92m struggling to understand why his hand would even be on the thrust levers at Vr. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AvHerald
limahotel June 15, 2025, 19:24:00 GMT permalink Post: 11902747	Quote: Originally Posted by matiagr The biggest news site in Greece claims to have the results of a kind of preliminary report from India AAIB which say that as the plane rotated, the pilot's seat malfunctioned (broken pin) and went suddenly far back forcing the captain to accidentally lower the thrust lever as he already had his hand on it and despite the co-pilots effort to help increase the thrust it was already to late to avoid the stall. I dont believe they would have posted something as serious as this without any credible source cause they are supposed to be a serious news outlet but you never know when stupidity takes over validity. Source is the protothema dot gr site I saw the comment stating the above on AHerald (giving a detailed timeline of events). But why would the captain keep his hand on thrust levers at Vr? Also, can electrically adjustable seats suddenly just slide backwards? Additionally, this doesn't account for the RAT deployment. If they had truly firewalled the throttles afterward, we would expect to see a pitch-up moment\x97which isn\x92t evident in the video (at least to me). Perhaps a nose-down trim could have counteracted it, but that seems like a bit of a stretch. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AAIB (All) Preliminary Report RAT (All) RAT (Deployment) Timeline (Preliminary Report)
limahotel July 11, 2025, 22:36:00 GMT permalink Post: 11919926	Quote: Originally Posted by violator And for those who scoff at the possibility of the PM inadvertently operating the cutoff switches (which is done as frequently as operating the gear lever), I\x92d remind you that more than one Airbus has landed with its parking brake on after the PM inadvertently set it rather than arming the spoilers. Even more serious incidents have occurred, such as the Luxair\x92s accidental retraction of the landing gear during takeoff rotation, leading to a failed liftoff: https://avherald.com/h?article=48d1e3ae&opt=0 Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Gear Lever

Posts by user "limahotel" [Posts: 5 Total up-votes: 0 Pages: 1]