overstress
2025-06-13T20:02:00
permalink Post: 11900853

Survivor\x92s statement

Quote:

He said the plane appeared to almost come to a standstill in mid-air for a few seconds shortly after take-off, and the green and white cabin lights were turned on.

He added that he could feel the engine thrust increasing, but then the plane “crashed with speed into the hostel”.

Where does that put the loss of thrust theory?

Above quote from article in today’s Daily Telegraph

(Current 777 Captain)

Last edited by overstress; 13th Jun 2025 at 20:12 . Reason: Clarification

Subjects: None

overstress
2025-06-13T20:19:00
permalink Post: 11900867

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbytables

I wouldn\x92t say that it changes anything at all. Pax statements are all over the place with these kinds of events. If there were more survivors there would be a few who said they saw a fireball outside, etc.

Yet credence is given here to his recollection of a bang and green lights etc, yet his comments about THRUST increasing are ignored by the RAT theorists\x85

Subjects: RAT (All)

1 user liked this post.

overstress
2025-06-13T21:09:00
permalink Post: 11900909

Quote:

Originally Posted by neila83

Why the need to make the two theories fit in such a convoluted manner? Inadvertent flap retraction was theorised because people assumed that was most likely to have caused the loss of lift - hardly anyone believed dual engine failure was possible. Now we know that the loss of lift was indeed almost certainly caused by a loss of engine power,

How do we \x91know\x92 that, exactly?

Subjects: Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All) Flap Retraction Flaps (All)

2 users liked this post.

overstress
2025-06-13T21:47:00
permalink Post: 11900940

Quote:

Originally Posted by neila83

Well for one, because the plane lost 60+ knots during the event. It's very easy to calculate the average speed of the plane from takeoff to impact and it is far below takeoff speed. Once you have done that calculation, it becomes a lot clearer. Then ask yourself if retracting the flaps is likely to result in losing 60 knots while descending at takeoff thrust. If the videos can't convince you, maybe physics can.

An aerodynamic stall would do the same. And lay off the patronising, please.

Subjects: None

10 users liked this post.

overstress
2025-06-13T21:51:00
permalink Post: 11900946

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpGo

Retracting the flaps would put them at the back of the power curve where drag increases with decreasing speed, causing the speed to reduce further!
The trouble seems to start at the exact moment the gear should have been raised, putting the flaps up, iso the gear, would cause the kind of loss of lift you see in the video. From there on, being at the back of the power curve, only firewalling the thrust levers and extending the flaps again could have saved them.

Indeed this is one of the memory items in the QRH.

Subjects: None

overstress
2025-06-14T08:00:00
permalink Post: 11901226

Quote:

Originally Posted by gearlever

Look for "Behind the power curve"

Drag curve?

Subjects: None

overstress 2025-06-13T20:02:00 permalink Post: 11900853	Survivor\x92s statement Quote: He said the plane appeared to almost come to a standstill in mid-air for a few seconds shortly after take-off, and the green and white cabin lights were turned on. He added that he could feel the engine thrust increasing, but then the plane “crashed with speed into the hostel”. Where does that put the loss of thrust theory? Above quote from article in today’s Daily Telegraph (Current 777 Captain) Last edited by overstress; 13th Jun 2025 at 20:12 . Reason: Clarification Subjects: None
overstress 2025-06-13T20:19:00 permalink Post: 11900867	Quote: Originally Posted by bobbytables I wouldn\x92t say that it changes anything at all. Pax statements are all over the place with these kinds of events. If there were more survivors there would be a few who said they saw a fireball outside, etc. Yet credence is given here to his recollection of a bang and green lights etc, yet his comments about THRUST increasing are ignored by the RAT theorists\x85 Subjects: RAT (All) 1 user liked this post.
overstress 2025-06-13T21:09:00 permalink Post: 11900909	Quote: Originally Posted by neila83 Why the need to make the two theories fit in such a convoluted manner? Inadvertent flap retraction was theorised because people assumed that was most likely to have caused the loss of lift - hardly anyone believed dual engine failure was possible. Now we know that the loss of lift was indeed almost certainly caused by a loss of engine power, How do we \x91know\x92 that, exactly? Subjects: Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All) Flap Retraction Flaps (All) 2 users liked this post.
overstress 2025-06-13T21:47:00 permalink Post: 11900940	Quote: Originally Posted by neila83 Well for one, because the plane lost 60+ knots during the event. It's very easy to calculate the average speed of the plane from takeoff to impact and it is far below takeoff speed. Once you have done that calculation, it becomes a lot clearer. Then ask yourself if retracting the flaps is likely to result in losing 60 knots while descending at takeoff thrust. If the videos can't convince you, maybe physics can. An aerodynamic stall would do the same. And lay off the patronising, please. Subjects: None 10 users liked this post.
overstress 2025-06-13T21:51:00 permalink Post: 11900946	Quote: Originally Posted by SpGo Retracting the flaps would put them at the back of the power curve where drag increases with decreasing speed, causing the speed to reduce further! The trouble seems to start at the exact moment the gear should have been raised, putting the flaps up, iso the gear, would cause the kind of loss of lift you see in the video. From there on, being at the back of the power curve, only firewalling the thrust levers and extending the flaps again could have saved them. Indeed this is one of the memory items in the QRH. Subjects: None
overstress 2025-06-14T08:00:00 permalink Post: 11901226	Quote: Originally Posted by gearlever Look for "Behind the power curve" Drag curve? Subjects: None

Posts by user "overstress" [Posts: 6 Total up-votes: 13 Pages: 1]