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pampel
June 12, 2025, 14:22:00 GMT permalink Post: 11899262 |
https://x.com/Vikasmakwana111/status/1933162059556159903
New angle from the airport. Subjects: None |
pampel
June 13, 2025, 10:46:00 GMT permalink Post: 11900336 |
The idea that the flaps weren't set for take off also seems incredibly dubious given that in several frames of the original footage you can see the engines through the wings, on both sides, something not explainable by grainy footage or compression artifacts, and only possible if the flaps are down. Edit to add: the reports on social media from the previous passengers complaining about non-functional electronics have been confirmed Last edited by pampel; 13th June 2025 at 11:31 . Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All) MAYDAY RAT (All) RAT (Deployment) |
pampel
June 13, 2025, 11:35:00 GMT permalink Post: 11900390 |
Evidence in this thread would lean me toward the RAT deployed and therefore dual engine out scenario. As for the cause of that, well, only a couple of likely scenarios exist that could cause simultaneous shutdown of both engines, including mistaken or intentional use of the fuel cutoff levers.
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Fuel Cutoff Switches RAT (All) RAT (Deployment) |
pampel
June 14, 2025, 12:01:00 GMT permalink Post: 11901409 |
I hesitate to chip in in these accidents thread. Keep them clean. However, as as a few comments above brushes my audio expertise, I will comment.
A very simple audio analysis give me this: The 3 segments horisontally, are of B787s passing overhead. The drop you see is the doppler effect. In other words, these are spectrograms over time which makes these distinctions easier than a simple static spectrogram. 1. B787 with RAT extended. 2.Air india crash 3. B787 without RAT It's a 5 minute laptop job, and it would look much prettier and clearer if I spent some time with it, (Gain to color match, and spectrally match to compensate for microphone placement and type), but it is 85% conclusive even when done as simple as this IMO. (I do have legal forensic audio experience) The RAT was out judging from the audio evidence. You can see the the equally spaced overtones of the propelller match when passing overhead resulting in the Doppler effect, the difference in length of the doppler is caused by distance and the slightly varying frequencies shown in the starting point is caused by a difference in speed. But the harmonic content match. In the 3rd segment you see none of these overtones at all. Last edited by pampel; 14th June 2025 at 17:46 . Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): RAT (All) RAT (Deployment) |
pampel
June 16, 2025, 09:39:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903323 |
I'm not convinced the RAT is deployed. If it has deployed it could've been a last ditch effort for the crew to bring the fuel control switches from RUN to CUTOFF & back to RUN believing they've had a dual engine failure. This would account for the RAT if it did deploy.
There just isn't enough time for the RAT to be deployed as a result of any action by the crew, IMHO. And to demonstrate how long 7 seconds is - that's enough to say 20 words, assuming no interruptions . Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All) Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches RAT (All) RAT (Deployment) RUN/CUTOFF |
pampel
June 17, 2025, 19:00:00 GMT permalink Post: 11904571 |
Air India have cancelled a few 787 flights as they work through the mandated safety checks.
From The Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uiry-continues The only reasonable takeaway is that this is further evidence that the crash was not caused by the pilots. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): DGCA |
pampel
June 18, 2025, 08:03:00 GMT permalink Post: 11905011 |
That my friend is the billion dollar question. Which is the figure that the class action lawyers wrote on their whiteboard I think.
Every day that passes with no Boeing or GE bulletins reduces the chance of a design issue and suggests maintenance or operational error. Boeing, in their very troubled state, will be doing everything they can to shift the blame and keep their fleet in the air, the Indian authorities and AI will be doing everything they can do pin the blame on Boeing/GE, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence etc...its very shaky ground to draw conclusions from. Subjects: None |
pampel
June 18, 2025, 10:27:00 GMT permalink Post: 11905115 |
I'm not sure you can infer much from them being sensitive to their somewhat wrecked reputation - any directive for their aircraft, even if it was for a virtually insignificant piece of the puzzle, would cause a flurry of bad press and speculation. They will absolutely be fighting tooth and nail to avoid it. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, for all sides in this.
Subjects: None |
pampel
July 12, 2025, 20:12:00 GMT permalink Post: 11920803 |
In the case of (2) or (3), would the expected response be "Why did you cutoff"?
I would have thought a pilot would notice the engines spooling down, and comment on that. To immediately jump to the cutoff switches as the cause rather implies something drew attention to the switches. Then there is a 10+ second gap before the switches are set to run again. I can't think of any good reason why the PNF would have taken so long to correct an accidental or deliberate manipulation of the switches. The truth will be in what was said after 'I didnt', but that's conspicuously absent from the report. Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Pilot "Why did you cut off" |
pampel
July 14, 2025, 14:31:00 GMT permalink Post: 11922258 |
The only distinction the report makes is that the question was 'why did you cut off' rather than 'did you cut off', which suggests one of the pilots saw the other cut the switches, which in turn suggests either (a) the pilot who did the cutoff had done it accidentally and wasn't aware of it, or (b) the pilot who did the cutoff was well aware of what they did but then lied about it despite having clearly been seeing doing it. Given the question was 'why', it seems equally plausible that it was the PF Kunder who transitioned the switches accidentally as part of some muscle memory blunder, and it was the PM Sabharwal who asked Kunder why he cutoff, who then replied that he didn't, because the fact he'd made the mistake hadn't registered. OTOH, it might just be a sloppy transcription.
While depressed people get lost in their thoughts, this would have been a total reversal of his caring nature. It's just another factor that just doesn't make sense.
I totally agree with this, it makes no sense at all, especially after his 'just one or two more flights' statement. The guy had already moved cities to help look after his father, and was considering retiring early to have even more time to dedicate. Again, for me, this points to a blunder by Kunder. Last edited by pampel; 14th July 2025 at 15:17 . Reason: made distinction in question more clear Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Muscle Memory Pilot "Why did you cut off" |
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