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unworry
June 16, 2025, 03:43:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903084 |
Experienced 777 driver. Have tried to solve the puzzle. Looked carefully at the video in this article many times - see below and use full screen.
I might see a small puff of smoke and a smoke-ring just before they pass the shed. Indications of en enginefailure. I also see the wings tilt briefly - a few degrees - towards left. Correct procedure after enginefailure is to tilt the wings about 3 degrees toward the engine that is still running. I also see them climb at a - it seems - too high angle for the actual conditions if engine has failed. That will kill the nescessary engineoutspeed in a few seconds and be hard to recover from. If - and I say if - they in this stressed situation managed to shot down the wrong engine following the engineout procedures the RAT would come out. That would probably preoccupy them so much they forget everything about gear and flaps.. It is a situation I believe most experienced 777 / 787 pilots would recognise as a possibility and would explain everything. But this is pure speculation. Lets wait and see what the investigation teams find out... https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/a...w-so-far-crash I originally wondered about that ... until an old colleague sent me this short clip of a triple kicking up dust rotating in the same location For your consideration: (20 second clip) Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Engine Failure (All) RAT (All) |
unworry
June 16, 2025, 06:51:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903152 |
I told you this re translation 3 days ago but the post was deleted then again 2 days ago see post 993.
Notwithstanding the possibility that recollection of the traumatised survivor may be unreliable it seems clear that he thought the engines were spooling up before impact. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt that he might be right. Possible auto relight but too late? I don't want to review the video again -- personally, I suspect the "revving" the survivor heard was the sound of the RAT spooling up, and that the pilots were flaring as the ground approached in the vain hope of setting her down gently. Just sharing the OPs suggestion as it relates to your comment Last edited by unworry; 16th June 2025 at 07:02 . Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): RAT (All) Relight Thread Moderation |
unworry
June 16, 2025, 08:15:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903233 |
Yes. Thank you tdracer. All those postulating TCMA / FADEC faults please read and understand this clear explanation.
Then, ask yourselves which extraordinarily low probability bundle of previously unrevealed faults could spontaneously manifest themselves on both engines simultaneously. Also ask yourselves why these faults manifested at that critical phase of flight and not during taxiing or take-off roll when some of the TCMA sensors would have been primed. Of course, when the probable cause is profoundly unclear, our continuing distrust of latent technical systems comes to the fore .... as sadly, the shadow of MCAS still looms large in our imaginations Last edited by unworry; 16th June 2025 at 08:26 . Reason: a word Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All) FADEC Takeoff Roll |
unworry
June 16, 2025, 03:43:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903739 |
Experienced 777 driver. Have tried to solve the puzzle. Looked carefully at the video in this article many times - see below and use full screen.
I might see a small puff of smoke and a smoke-ring just before they pass the shed. Indications of en enginefailure. I also see the wings tilt briefly - a few degrees - towards left. Correct procedure after enginefailure is to tilt the wings about 3 degrees toward the engine that is still running. I also see them climb at a - it seems - too high angle for the actual conditions if engine has failed. That will kill the nescessary engineoutspeed in a few seconds and be hard to recover from. If - and I say if - they in this stressed situation managed to shot down the wrong engine following the engineout procedures the RAT would come out. That would probably preoccupy them so much they forget everything about gear and flaps.. It is a situation I believe most experienced 777 / 787 pilots would recognise as a possibility and would explain everything. But this is pure speculation. Lets wait and see what the investigation teams find out... https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/a...w-so-far-crash I originally wondered about that ... until an old colleague sent me this short clip of a triple kicking up dust rotating in the same location For your consideration: (20 second clip) Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Engine Failure (All) RAT (All) |
unworry
June 16, 2025, 08:15:00 GMT permalink Post: 11903749 |
Yes. Thank you tdracer. All those postulating TCMA / FADEC faults please read and understand this clear explanation.
Then, ask yourselves which extraordinarily low probability bundle of previously unrevealed faults could spontaneously manifest themselves on both engines simultaneously. Also ask yourselves why these faults manifested at that critical phase of flight and not during taxiing or take-off roll when some of the TCMA sensors would have been primed. Of course, when the probable cause is profoundly unclear, our continuing distrust of latent technical systems comes to the fore .... as sadly, the shadow of MCAS still looms large in our imaginations Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All) FADEC Takeoff Roll |
unworry
June 17, 2025, 06:40:00 GMT permalink Post: 11904005 |
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): DGCA |
unworry
June 17, 2025, 21:35:00 GMT permalink Post: 11904689 |
Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AAIB (All) AAIB (India) CVR EAFR FDR |
unworry
June 18, 2025, 06:25:00 GMT permalink Post: 11904947 |
![]() Subjects: None |
unworry
July 13, 2025, 10:23:00 GMT permalink Post: 11921207 |
![]() Not sure if this is helpful for anyone or not but I thought a visual view of the timeline of events might be useful, in seconds since V1. I've assumed 1Hz for the switch sampling rate and >1Hz for everything else (could be wrong) to give windows for the switch state changes. I've also added in the ADS-B relevant data, although made no attempt to work out whether these timestamps are synchronised or not, so take them as you will. I have assumed the cutoff is in chronological order from the report, albeit I have ignored the RAT supply timestamp in terms of chronology from the CVR recording, as that statement in the report at that time may just be due to contextual nature of the statement, rather than it happening prior to the RAT power supply. This gives a window for potentially when that statement was made (assuming also that it was made prior to reversing cutoff). Really highlights how knowing precisely when the why did you cutoff" question was asked might have provided more clarity and less speculation as to how those fateful seconds played out And it would have helped to know if Positive rate / Gear Up was called ... and when Last edited by unworry; 13th July 2025 at 12:19 . Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): ADSB CVR Fuel (All) Fuel Cutoff Switches Pilot "Why did you cut off" Preliminary Report RAT (All) Timeline (Preliminary Report) V1 |
unworry
July 13, 2025, 22:56:00 GMT permalink Post: 11921755 |
He had suffered from depression for a couple of years since the death of his wife in a car accident. She was the light of his life. I noted recently he had stopped flying recreationally and raised this with him - suggesting a trip may go some way to lift his mood But when I said we should head away for the weekend and fly up to see friends, he got awful quiet and withdrawn -- then confided that on his last flight, with his grandchildren onboard , he felt such a heightened sense of hopelessness that he was overcome by a compelling urge to end it all. Fortunately he fought off these dark thoughts, but describes it as an almost insurmountable internal struggle - and only fortunate that he was on final and a minute out. Thankfully he is now receiving excellent care and has voluntarily grounded himself We speak often and openly about the incident - and this overwhelming sense of "just want out" is precisely how he expressed it. Edit to add: Personally, I'm still hoping for an inexplicable action slip, but recognise there's two suggestions on the table Last edited by unworry; 13th July 2025 at 23:02 . Reason: my view Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Action slip |
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