2025-06-16T03:43:00
permalink Post: 11903084
Experienced 777 driver. Have tried to solve the puzzle. Looked carefully at the video in this article many times - see below and use full screen.
I might see a small puff of smoke and a smoke-ring just before they pass the shed. Indications of en enginefailure. I also see the wings tilt briefly - a few degrees - towards left. Correct procedure after enginefailure is to tilt the wings about 3 degrees toward the engine that is still running. I also see them climb at a - it seems - too high angle for the actual conditions if engine has failed. That will kill the nescessary engineoutspeed in a few seconds and be hard to recover from. If - and I say if - they in this stressed situation managed to shot down the wrong engine following the engineout procedures the RAT would come out. That would probably preoccupy them so much they forget everything about gear and flaps.. It is a situation I believe most experienced 777 / 787 pilots would recognise as a possibility and would explain everything. But this is pure speculation. Lets wait and see what the investigation teams find out...
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/a...w-so-far-crash
I might see a small puff of smoke and a smoke-ring just before they pass the shed. Indications of en enginefailure. I also see the wings tilt briefly - a few degrees - towards left. Correct procedure after enginefailure is to tilt the wings about 3 degrees toward the engine that is still running. I also see them climb at a - it seems - too high angle for the actual conditions if engine has failed. That will kill the nescessary engineoutspeed in a few seconds and be hard to recover from. If - and I say if - they in this stressed situation managed to shot down the wrong engine following the engineout procedures the RAT would come out. That would probably preoccupy them so much they forget everything about gear and flaps.. It is a situation I believe most experienced 777 / 787 pilots would recognise as a possibility and would explain everything. But this is pure speculation. Lets wait and see what the investigation teams find out...
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/a...w-so-far-crash
I originally wondered about that ... until an old colleague sent me this short clip of a triple kicking up dust rotating in the same location
For your consideration: (20 second clip)
Subjects: Engine Failure (All) Flaps (All) Flaps vs Gear MLG Tilt RAT (All) Wrong Engine
1 user liked this post.
2025-06-16T06:51:00
permalink Post: 11903152
I told you this re translation 3 days ago but the post was deleted then again 2 days ago see post 993.
Notwithstanding the possibility that recollection of the traumatised survivor may be unreliable it seems clear that he thought the engines were spooling up before impact. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt that he might be right.
Possible auto relight but too late?
Notwithstanding the possibility that recollection of the traumatised survivor may be unreliable it seems clear that he thought the engines were spooling up before impact. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt that he might be right.
Possible auto relight but too late?
I don't want to review the video again -- personally, I suspect the "revving" the survivor heard was the sound of the RAT spooling up, and that the pilots were flaring as the ground approached in the vain hope of setting her down gently. Just sharing the OPs suggestion as it relates to your comment
Last edited by unworry; 16th Jun 2025 at 07:02 .
Subjects: RAT (All)
1 user liked this post.
2025-06-16T08:15:00
permalink Post: 11903233
Yes. Thank you tdracer. All those postulating TCMA / FADEC faults please read and understand this clear explanation.
Then, ask yourselves which extraordinarily low probability bundle of previously unrevealed faults could spontaneously manifest themselves on both engines simultaneously.
Also ask yourselves why these faults manifested at that critical phase of flight and not during taxiing or take-off roll when some of the TCMA sensors would have been primed.
Then, ask yourselves which extraordinarily low probability bundle of previously unrevealed faults could spontaneously manifest themselves on both engines simultaneously.
Also ask yourselves why these faults manifested at that critical phase of flight and not during taxiing or take-off roll when some of the TCMA sensors would have been primed.
Of course, when the probable cause is profoundly unclear, our continuing distrust of latent technical systems comes to the fore .... as sadly, the shadow of MCAS still looms large in our imaginations
Last edited by unworry; 16th Jun 2025 at 08:26 . Reason: a word
Subjects: Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All) FADEC TCMA (All) Takeoff Roll
1 user liked this post.
2025-06-16T03:43:00
permalink Post: 11903739
Experienced 777 driver. Have tried to solve the puzzle. Looked carefully at the video in this article many times - see below and use full screen.
I might see a small puff of smoke and a smoke-ring just before they pass the shed. Indications of en enginefailure. I also see the wings tilt briefly - a few degrees - towards left. Correct procedure after enginefailure is to tilt the wings about 3 degrees toward the engine that is still running. I also see them climb at a - it seems - too high angle for the actual conditions if engine has failed. That will kill the nescessary engineoutspeed in a few seconds and be hard to recover from. If - and I say if - they in this stressed situation managed to shot down the wrong engine following the engineout procedures the RAT would come out. That would probably preoccupy them so much they forget everything about gear and flaps.. It is a situation I believe most experienced 777 / 787 pilots would recognise as a possibility and would explain everything. But this is pure speculation. Lets wait and see what the investigation teams find out...
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/a...w-so-far-crash
I might see a small puff of smoke and a smoke-ring just before they pass the shed. Indications of en enginefailure. I also see the wings tilt briefly - a few degrees - towards left. Correct procedure after enginefailure is to tilt the wings about 3 degrees toward the engine that is still running. I also see them climb at a - it seems - too high angle for the actual conditions if engine has failed. That will kill the nescessary engineoutspeed in a few seconds and be hard to recover from. If - and I say if - they in this stressed situation managed to shot down the wrong engine following the engineout procedures the RAT would come out. That would probably preoccupy them so much they forget everything about gear and flaps.. It is a situation I believe most experienced 777 / 787 pilots would recognise as a possibility and would explain everything. But this is pure speculation. Lets wait and see what the investigation teams find out...
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/a...w-so-far-crash
I originally wondered about that ... until an old colleague sent me this short clip of a triple kicking up dust rotating in the same location
For your consideration: (20 second clip)
Subjects: Engine Failure (All) Flaps (All) Flaps vs Gear MLG Tilt RAT (All) Wrong Engine
1 user liked this post.
2025-06-16T08:15:00
permalink Post: 11903749
Yes. Thank you tdracer. All those postulating TCMA / FADEC faults please read and understand this clear explanation.
Then, ask yourselves which extraordinarily low probability bundle of previously unrevealed faults could spontaneously manifest themselves on both engines simultaneously.
Also ask yourselves why these faults manifested at that critical phase of flight and not during taxiing or take-off roll when some of the TCMA sensors would have been primed.
Then, ask yourselves which extraordinarily low probability bundle of previously unrevealed faults could spontaneously manifest themselves on both engines simultaneously.
Also ask yourselves why these faults manifested at that critical phase of flight and not during taxiing or take-off roll when some of the TCMA sensors would have been primed.
Of course, when the probable cause is profoundly unclear, our continuing distrust of latent technical systems comes to the fore .... as sadly, the shadow of MCAS still looms large in our imaginations
Subjects: Dual Engine Failure Engine Failure (All) FADEC TCMA (All) Takeoff Roll
2 users liked this post.
2025-06-17T06:40:00
permalink Post: 11904005
Subjects: Bird Strike DGCA
6 users liked this post.
2025-06-17T21:35:00
permalink Post: 11904689
Subjects: AAIB (All) AAIB (IDGA) CVR EAFR FDR
2 users liked this post.
2025-06-18T06:25:00
permalink Post: 11904947
Subjects: None