July 31, 2016, 22:10:00 GMT
permalink Post: 9457731
Yep - Braniff crews trained to fly the full envelope. But for BA insurance reasons, there had to be a BA captain and flight engineer riding along in the jumpseats.
Another cute trick - the European airlines "sold" the airframes temporarily to Braniff, with new US N-numbers, so they could fly a "domestic" route without violating cabotage laws. Then "sold back" to BA or AF for the transatlantic legs.
CONCORDE SST : Braniff Concorde Services
Another cute trick - the European airlines "sold" the airframes temporarily to Braniff, with new US N-numbers, so they could fly a "domestic" route without violating cabotage laws. Then "sold back" to BA or AF for the transatlantic legs.
CONCORDE SST : Braniff Concorde Services
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December 15, 2016, 04:21:00 GMT
permalink Post: 9609867
Directly above the Captains ADI there are two small annunciators side by side, the one on the left has a symbol I can't quite make out while the one on the right appears to have four separate segments, the upper right of which is amber, there also seems to be a small
white switch to the right of this.
Can you tell me what these are for ?
white switch to the right of this.
Can you tell me what these are for ?
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February 04, 2017, 05:35:00 GMT
permalink Post: 9664195
Were both BA and AF involved / lend aircraft to the short lived Braniff Concorde operation flying the aircraft subsonic from Washington Dulles to the Dallas Fort Worth airport ?
I read somewhere that the aircraft owner, whether it was BA or AF always had one of their captains as an observer in one of the cockpit jumpseats on these flights ?
Not sure if that's true but any other insights or information on this unusual arrangement
would be welcome.
I read somewhere that the aircraft owner, whether it was BA or AF always had one of their captains as an observer in one of the cockpit jumpseats on these flights ?
Not sure if that's true but any other insights or information on this unusual arrangement
would be welcome.
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February 04, 2017, 19:22:00 GMT
permalink Post: 9664951
stilton
... so you might use reverse on only one engine? any assymetric issues with that ?...
No issue at all, on the one occasion I can remember that it happened to me.
... why the 4 minute restriction ?...
I believe the correct answer has been given by CliveL, but, when asked during ground school, the BAe instructors’ traditional answer was “Noise Abatement”. (as in a Concorde hitting the ground makes a lot of noise!)
... BA or AF always had one of their captains as an observer in one of the cockpit jumpseats on these flights ?...
Before my time, so I can’t say if BA crew flew on the jump seat, or in what capacity they were acting if they did, but I believe there is at least one contributor to this thread who may yet post an answer.
CliveL
... Can any of our pilot contributors confirm n5296s's remarks re landing in a strong headwind?..
Speaking personally, I never noticed any problem, and as EXWOK has said, I found using VREF +10 made life a lot easier.
However, Mike Riley, a well respected base training instructor on the fleet (and a past British Aerobatics team member) discussed this point in his “The Concorde Stick and Rudder Book”, where he says that there was a greater incidence of hard landings when landing into a strong headwind and goes on to discuss some of the possible reasons why and what to do about it.
His main recommendation was to leave the auto throttle in later than usual, down to 20R instead of 40R, and maintain a constant attitude to touchdown.
... The certificated approach speed is Vref, Vref plus 7 if memory serves, was introduced as an approach noise reduction...
Yes, VREF +7 was used for Reduced Noise Approaches that were flown whenever possible, and which were generally considered easier to land from than VREF approaches.
... so you might use reverse on only one engine? any assymetric issues with that ?...
No issue at all, on the one occasion I can remember that it happened to me.
... why the 4 minute restriction ?...
I believe the correct answer has been given by CliveL, but, when asked during ground school, the BAe instructors’ traditional answer was “Noise Abatement”. (as in a Concorde hitting the ground makes a lot of noise!)
... BA or AF always had one of their captains as an observer in one of the cockpit jumpseats on these flights ?...
Before my time, so I can’t say if BA crew flew on the jump seat, or in what capacity they were acting if they did, but I believe there is at least one contributor to this thread who may yet post an answer.
CliveL
... Can any of our pilot contributors confirm n5296s's remarks re landing in a strong headwind?..
Speaking personally, I never noticed any problem, and as EXWOK has said, I found using VREF +10 made life a lot easier.
However, Mike Riley, a well respected base training instructor on the fleet (and a past British Aerobatics team member) discussed this point in his “The Concorde Stick and Rudder Book”, where he says that there was a greater incidence of hard landings when landing into a strong headwind and goes on to discuss some of the possible reasons why and what to do about it.
His main recommendation was to leave the auto throttle in later than usual, down to 20R instead of 40R, and maintain a constant attitude to touchdown.
... The certificated approach speed is Vref, Vref plus 7 if memory serves, was introduced as an approach noise reduction...
Yes, VREF +7 was used for Reduced Noise Approaches that were flown whenever possible, and which were generally considered easier to land from than VREF approaches.
Last edited by Bellerophon; 6th February 2017 at 23:31 . Reason: Loss of formatting
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April 29, 2017, 06:18:00 GMT
permalink Post: 9755769
That's certainly possible, I was looking at the picture of the Captains instrument panel taken in level cruise at FL600.
It appears as a thin red line on the face of the instrument itself opposite 190 knots
approximately.
The picture i'm referring to is on page 4 of this thread reply #66 posted by yourself !
And on further examination I think I can see what you're saying, it does look like
the lower red edge of the warning flag just visible in that window.
Thanks again BP and for the person that did the very useful indexing which made finding that picture a breeze.
It appears as a thin red line on the face of the instrument itself opposite 190 knots
approximately.
The picture i'm referring to is on page 4 of this thread reply #66 posted by yourself !
And on further examination I think I can see what you're saying, it does look like
the lower red edge of the warning flag just visible in that window.
Thanks again BP and for the person that did the very useful indexing which made finding that picture a breeze.
Last edited by stilton; 29th April 2017 at 06:28 .
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November 29, 2017, 20:17:00 GMT
permalink Post: 9973507
Casper, I'm not aware of any fuel tank protection by either BA or AF prior to the accident.
Overweight & aft GC was due too much fuel as well as captain authorising baggage to be loaded (in the rear baggage cabin) when the aeroplane was already about 5 tons overweight.
Something else germane to the accident was that the fuel tanks were overfilled leaving no airspace to absorb any shock waves on the basis this extra fuel would be burned off during taxi, but the change of runway (to a downwind one) meant a much shorter taxy so it wasn't burned off and the FE didn't ask for a delay while it got burned off. They just 'went'.
Worse - realising they had a rearward CG, fuel was being transferred from tank 11 (in the tail) to the wing tanks DURING THE TAKE OFF ROLL. an absolute no-no in Conc ops. The idea being as fuel was burned off from the wing tanks and replaced by fuel from tank 11, the CG would move foreward.
The result was the wing tanks were always overfull even though they were supplying fuel to the engines, so when one tank was hit by a big piece of tyre the shock waves travelled up through the fuel, bounced off the top surface of the tank, having found no gap of compressible air to absorb the overpressure, and travelled back down and burst the tank floor from inside.
Overweight & aft GC was due too much fuel as well as captain authorising baggage to be loaded (in the rear baggage cabin) when the aeroplane was already about 5 tons overweight.
Something else germane to the accident was that the fuel tanks were overfilled leaving no airspace to absorb any shock waves on the basis this extra fuel would be burned off during taxi, but the change of runway (to a downwind one) meant a much shorter taxy so it wasn't burned off and the FE didn't ask for a delay while it got burned off. They just 'went'.
Worse - realising they had a rearward CG, fuel was being transferred from tank 11 (in the tail) to the wing tanks DURING THE TAKE OFF ROLL. an absolute no-no in Conc ops. The idea being as fuel was burned off from the wing tanks and replaced by fuel from tank 11, the CG would move foreward.
The result was the wing tanks were always overfull even though they were supplying fuel to the engines, so when one tank was hit by a big piece of tyre the shock waves travelled up through the fuel, bounced off the top surface of the tank, having found no gap of compressible air to absorb the overpressure, and travelled back down and burst the tank floor from inside.
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December 10, 2017, 13:16:00 GMT
permalink Post: 9985349
Good Evening Stilton, M-2 Dude and others.
I am having a nostalgia evening as 20 years ago today I had a flight in G-BOAC from CYYZ to “no-where”.
Actually, it was down to New York out over the ocean for around 30 minutes at FL 550 and Mach 2. For one in the “industry” it was a real treat to be able to have a flight in such an iconic aircraft.
Things I will always remember going out of “reheat” (a more elegant description then afterburner) after noise abatement from being pushed back into one’s seat to being momentarily weightless, the brilliance of the sky at FL 550, the cabin windows being hot at Mach 2 and seeing the gap between the flight engineers panel and the bulk head at Mach 2 due to the aircraft heating. I could go on about the engineering, observing the crew coordination from the cockpit visit (sadly pre-9/11) and there is a certain story about how our group sweet talked our way into the first-class lounge in YYZ and drained all the bubbly British Airways had in the fridge that day but…….
Reading the thread on this aircraft has been fascinating and thank you to all that has contributed to this wonderful story a sincere thank you.
I am having a nostalgia evening as 20 years ago today I had a flight in G-BOAC from CYYZ to “no-where”.
Actually, it was down to New York out over the ocean for around 30 minutes at FL 550 and Mach 2. For one in the “industry” it was a real treat to be able to have a flight in such an iconic aircraft.
Things I will always remember going out of “reheat” (a more elegant description then afterburner) after noise abatement from being pushed back into one’s seat to being momentarily weightless, the brilliance of the sky at FL 550, the cabin windows being hot at Mach 2 and seeing the gap between the flight engineers panel and the bulk head at Mach 2 due to the aircraft heating. I could go on about the engineering, observing the crew coordination from the cockpit visit (sadly pre-9/11) and there is a certain story about how our group sweet talked our way into the first-class lounge in YYZ and drained all the bubbly British Airways had in the fridge that day but…….
Reading the thread on this aircraft has been fascinating and thank you to all that has contributed to this wonderful story a sincere thank you.
Anyway the captain then says "never mind, we'll be in JFK 5 minutes early because of the "issue" - you can stay up for the whole flight if you can explain why".
After some serious cogitation, I sussed it out - any body else want a crack at it - and why wasn't an attractive option?
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December 14, 2017, 20:20:00 GMT
permalink Post: 9990408
CliveL
From this video. Have you not seen it? Ignore the garish sensational 'cover'. John is a highly experienced BA Concorde captain.
From this video. Have you not seen it? Ignore the garish sensational 'cover'. John is a highly experienced BA Concorde captain.
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December 30, 2017, 21:48:00 GMT
permalink Post: 10005880
During my 27 years as a licensed aircraft engineer on the Concorde fleet I can not recall any type of rota for flying the aircraft. Whilst in theory it would be nice to equal their flying hours it was not possible as A/C engine hours would often dictate. The engine was made up of different modules & when that module became time x then the engine was changed & went away for the module to be replaced/overhauled.
You would often face a situation where you tried to limit flying hours of an A/C so you could change an engine to coincide with a service check. Also bearing in mind the delivery dates of each A/C G-BOAC was the first due to it having the BOAC reg. followed by OAA,OAB,OAD,OAE . OAF, & OAG both arrived later.
OAC returned to Filton under warranty for a while & OAG was laid up for a long time before being recommissioned . Whilst we had 28 engines on the wing through out the fleet there were only about 8 spare engines. Don't know about Air France Engines. Like all engines they suffer from ingestion of FOD & oil leaks etc. so engines never really went to their full time x hours. As a flying spanner on several charters you always prayed for G-BOAD as it was always the most reliable of the fleet.
They all had their own characteristics. Most Captains had a favourite A/C
You would often face a situation where you tried to limit flying hours of an A/C so you could change an engine to coincide with a service check. Also bearing in mind the delivery dates of each A/C G-BOAC was the first due to it having the BOAC reg. followed by OAA,OAB,OAD,OAE . OAF, & OAG both arrived later.
OAC returned to Filton under warranty for a while & OAG was laid up for a long time before being recommissioned . Whilst we had 28 engines on the wing through out the fleet there were only about 8 spare engines. Don't know about Air France Engines. Like all engines they suffer from ingestion of FOD & oil leaks etc. so engines never really went to their full time x hours. As a flying spanner on several charters you always prayed for G-BOAD as it was always the most reliable of the fleet.
They all had their own characteristics. Most Captains had a favourite A/C
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February 28, 2020, 06:05:00 GMT
permalink Post: 10697869
There have been many books written about Concorde. Here is an excellent one by Mike Riley, a Concorde training captain, who not only flew Concorde, but also a large number of other types as well. In his book
A Concorde in my Toy Box
this unashamed flying enthusiast describes his airline career with BEA and BOAC, as well as taking part in international aerobatice contests with the likes of Neil Williams. His descriptions of the challenges of flying Concorde and the handling qualities of the many aircraft he has flown, including the Antanov An-2, are both analytical and amusing.
His writing contains pearls of aeronautical wisdom that bear comparison with those to be found in John Farley's book, A View from the Hover.
You can find it here on Amazon:-
His writing contains pearls of aeronautical wisdom that bear comparison with those to be found in John Farley's book, A View from the Hover.
You can find it here on Amazon:-
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August 30, 2022, 19:54:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11287962
What an amazing thread, thank you for all the contributors....I've been reading through it for the last week as I pass about the half way point!
I'm just SLF with a huge interest and passion for Concorde and was lucky to bag a LHR-JFK flight in 2002 as an 18th birthday present. One of the contributors here in the left seat as it happens...At that time it was before the retirement announcement and I just assumed for my next NYC trip I'd be able to get onboard...
I grew up in North Hampshire and went to school in West Berkshire. My school was on a hill just west of Reading and our morning break would coincide with the BA001. I could sit outside the library that faced eastwards and watch the familiar shape materialize as it came from the Woodley NDB and went right overhead enroute to the Compton VOR. It never got old and caused much amusement when the Heathrow chaplain came to do a sermon one Sunday and was interrupted by the aircraft
Home was under the path of the inbound BA002/BA004 and would always listen for the distinctive sound and head to the garden...and if I happened to be in the area of Heathrow within 30mins or so of a Concorde arrival or departure my father would always suggest stopping by for a look. One of my very earliest memories was sitting high on the white fence by Avis on the North Perimeter Road and watching one land, this would have been late 1980s....
We had a Concorde captain in the neighbouring village that my parents were friendly with. In 1996 he took my Christopher Orlebar book to NYC for a roundtrip getting it signed by the crew in both directions and then gave me all the Jeppesens, flight paperwork and a whole host of passenger "items" that I treasured, and still do. That really sowed the seed for 12yr old me to *really* find a way to get onboard...(and those 250 tier points and 14,000 BA miles were the first entry on my Executive Club account as I couldn't join until I was 18! All downhill from there!)
Anyways, this Concorde captain was by all accounts a bit of a legend so I'm sure those of you insiders knew him. I recall one Sunday afternoon, this would have been late 1990s, I looked out the living room window and saw a BA Concorde at low level, banked streaking across the sky maybe a mile away, a quite incredible sight. It turned out that this local Captain was doing one of the round the bay charters and got ATC permission to do a little tour of North Hampshire. A couple of acquaintances from the village played tennis every Sunday at this specific time and had complained about aircraft noise to him. Well, what better way to piss them off than to do a low buzz of their tennis club...
A year or so later he moved a little further south and opened up the village fete in similar fashion. He retired from BA after the 2000 grounding and the last I heard he was flying a large maroon business jet...that business jet being one of the Qatar Amiri 747SPs...
A question, finally! I now live fairly close to JFK and the 31L Canarsie departure is obviously extremely well known and one I've taken countless times in the "blunties". Given the noise abatement situation what happened if the weather didn't play ball? Were there other departure options? I've seen photos of arrivals on 13L, the Canarsie arrival and my own BA001 arrived on 4L. I assume therefore that arrivals were a lot less liberally governed,,,
Thanks in advance for your replies and I look forward to reading the other 1000 posts I haven't got around to!
I'm just SLF with a huge interest and passion for Concorde and was lucky to bag a LHR-JFK flight in 2002 as an 18th birthday present. One of the contributors here in the left seat as it happens...At that time it was before the retirement announcement and I just assumed for my next NYC trip I'd be able to get onboard...
I grew up in North Hampshire and went to school in West Berkshire. My school was on a hill just west of Reading and our morning break would coincide with the BA001. I could sit outside the library that faced eastwards and watch the familiar shape materialize as it came from the Woodley NDB and went right overhead enroute to the Compton VOR. It never got old and caused much amusement when the Heathrow chaplain came to do a sermon one Sunday and was interrupted by the aircraft
Home was under the path of the inbound BA002/BA004 and would always listen for the distinctive sound and head to the garden...and if I happened to be in the area of Heathrow within 30mins or so of a Concorde arrival or departure my father would always suggest stopping by for a look. One of my very earliest memories was sitting high on the white fence by Avis on the North Perimeter Road and watching one land, this would have been late 1980s....
We had a Concorde captain in the neighbouring village that my parents were friendly with. In 1996 he took my Christopher Orlebar book to NYC for a roundtrip getting it signed by the crew in both directions and then gave me all the Jeppesens, flight paperwork and a whole host of passenger "items" that I treasured, and still do. That really sowed the seed for 12yr old me to *really* find a way to get onboard...(and those 250 tier points and 14,000 BA miles were the first entry on my Executive Club account as I couldn't join until I was 18! All downhill from there!)
Anyways, this Concorde captain was by all accounts a bit of a legend so I'm sure those of you insiders knew him. I recall one Sunday afternoon, this would have been late 1990s, I looked out the living room window and saw a BA Concorde at low level, banked streaking across the sky maybe a mile away, a quite incredible sight. It turned out that this local Captain was doing one of the round the bay charters and got ATC permission to do a little tour of North Hampshire. A couple of acquaintances from the village played tennis every Sunday at this specific time and had complained about aircraft noise to him. Well, what better way to piss them off than to do a low buzz of their tennis club...
A year or so later he moved a little further south and opened up the village fete in similar fashion. He retired from BA after the 2000 grounding and the last I heard he was flying a large maroon business jet...that business jet being one of the Qatar Amiri 747SPs...
A question, finally! I now live fairly close to JFK and the 31L Canarsie departure is obviously extremely well known and one I've taken countless times in the "blunties". Given the noise abatement situation what happened if the weather didn't play ball? Were there other departure options? I've seen photos of arrivals on 13L, the Canarsie arrival and my own BA001 arrived on 4L. I assume therefore that arrivals were a lot less liberally governed,,,
Thanks in advance for your replies and I look forward to reading the other 1000 posts I haven't got around to!
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