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| CAAAD
November 27, 2010, 17:29:00 GMT permalink Post: 6087848 |
Dude - I think basic engine hardware was in good supply, but there were concerns about the control amplifier component availability.
We have a couple of Olympus intake blanks which we find absolutely perfect for gardening with our aged knees. Subjects
Intakes
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| ChristiaanJ
November 27, 2010, 18:30:00 GMT permalink Post: 6087916 |
Not to mention the vast quantity of spare compressor and turbine blades and stator vanes, spread far and wide after the end-of-service, through the spare parts auctions.
(The model is a design that was part of my engineering studies - late '60s - but the compressor vane is real Concorde.)
....but there were concerns about the control amplifier component availability.
M2dude and myself already have mentioned the same problem with the AICU (air intake control computer) in this thread. People do only rarely realise how rapidly technology was changing in the early Concorde days, and how difficult it was to procure components that sometimes were already obsolete when Concorde entered service. CJ Subjects
AICU (Air Intake Control Computer)
Intakes
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| speedbirdconcorde
November 29, 2010, 09:01:00 GMT permalink Post: 6090430 |
Dude, only 5 seconds ?? I'd demand a re-edit mate...outrageous !
Out of interest...here is a pic of AG in Seattle ( taken a while back ) and the source of a big part of this thread - unfortunately could not get any higher in order to get a better view...on either end ! ( I need to check on her again and see how she is doing ) and the SR71 also ( from the Pima Air / Space museum in Arizona) - I am sure all have seen the Concorde intakes but the SR71 rear end is interesting.... ps Please forgive the pic of the Sikorsky ( at Pima also ) ...couldnt resist
Cheers... Subjects
Intakes
SR-71
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| M2dude
November 30, 2010, 10:16:00 GMT permalink Post: 6092495 |
Hi DavvaP, and welcome. As far as ice on the wing goes, I'm sure as any of my pilot friends here will agree that she was treated just like a subsonic in that regard; any ice or snow build up on the surfaces of the wings would not be tolerated and would have to be removed before flight. (She may have had a revolutionary wing design, but still this was a wing nonetheless
). She would also require pre-flight chemical anti-icing/de-icing treatment from a ground truck just like the rest, in shall we say, 'less than tropical conditions'. (Winters in Prestwick during crew base training... such fond memories
). As far as active ice protection on the wings, there was a highly sophisticated Lucas electrical 'spraymat' system fitted, but only the wetted areas of the wing, forward of the engines were 'covered'. Two digitall cyclic timers (CTPUs) would automatically regulate cyclic switching on and off of 115 VAC for various load areas of the wing at a time at pilot pre-selectable intervals (2, 4 or 8 seconds). Also as part of this system, there was
continuous
de-icing for certain other load areas too, so you had a mix of cyclic and continuous de-icing in operation. The whole idea here was to prevent chunks of ice entering and damaging the engines, the only other areas of this electrical de-icing system were the intake lips and side-walls and also the D Box area above the auxilliary inlet vane, built into the spill door. (This would only operate if the auxilliary inlet door itself was open). The whole shooting match would automatically switch itself off, for obvious reasons, above a TAT of 15\xb0 C. (ie. the vast majority of the flight). The only other de-icing system (apart from the galley drain masts) was on the engine inlet guide vanes, but this was purely pneumatic and again would swith itself off above 15\xb0 C.
I think you will find that precious little of Concorde is now not generally available in the public domain, some control software and laws are still I would expect covered by some sort of patent. (That is why when I publiished here the engine 'E Schedule' graphs I deliberately deleted the equations for the various running lines. Your efficiency question was a valid one; as IAS and Mach number increase the aerodynamic drag (in all it's forms) will generally increase, but the efficiency OF A WELL DESIGNED powerplant wil also increase, and Concorde was definately no exception here. The real beauty of Concorde was just HOW MUCH the powerplant efficiency increased with increasing speed and more than totally eclipsed the aerodynamic drag rise with this increasing speed. At supersonic speeds, the closer you could fly to Vmo/Mmo the lower the fuel burn was. (Especiall true at Mach 2, although the autopilot would hold you Mach 2 (ish) in Max Cruise mode, flying closer to Mmo, Mach 2.04, would save fuel, assuming the static air temoerature was low enough to sustain this). This fact (along with about a million others) produced what we all like to call 'The Magic of Concorde'
Best Regards Dude
Last edited by M2dude; 30th November 2010 at 12:21 . Subjects
Auto-pilot
Fuel Burn
Galley
IAS (Indicated Air Speed)
Intakes
Mmo
TAT (Total Air Temperature)
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| M2dude
December 01, 2010, 11:32:00 GMT permalink Post: 6094864 |
Fuel tank vent and pressurisation
Mr Vortex
Finally, does some one have a schematic or the fuel vent system?
Regards Dude
Subjects
Fuel Vent System
Intakes
Trim
Vortex
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| howiehowie93
December 01, 2010, 14:04:00 GMT permalink Post: 6095161 |
Well I have to say this is a brilliant thread.
I stumbled upon it by accident and been catching up on it when I had a spare moment and have found it completely riveting and it has whiled away many hours over the past month. I\x92m ex-RAF and spent the last ten years working as an engine bloke on the T aeroplane & RB199. We were always told there were many parallels with Concorde & the Olympus 593 \x96 TBT/T7 Gauges, Optical Pyrometers, EPC Coils on-engine FCU\x92s, Vapour Core Pump for reheat fuel as well and the like. I attended the RR Manufactures course for two weeks at the Patchway Works and spent a day at the Concorde Museum seeing the similarities with the Electronic Control Units too though Lucas Aerospace made the MECU\x92s or GR1/4 (& DECU\x92s on the F3\x92s). Also while on the course the distinguished RR Instructor Gent filled up in with various snippets of Engine History too such as the Vaporisers which were fitted to RB199 & the later models of Olympus 593 were originally Armstrong Sidderly designed for the Sapphire, also I learned the whole 15 Stage Sapphire Compressor was lifted completely and fitted to later Avon\x92s as it worked better. I was at Leuchars in the early 80\x92s and the Open Golf peeps all arrived in one of these magnificent lady\x92s \x96 the visit was notable for several things; someone fired off an escape chute!!! \x96 What does this little handle do on the Main Oleo ??? whoosh ! and after the dusk take off the pilot beat the place up several times in full reheat !!!! My last place of work before I was de-mobbed was at the RAF Marham Engine bay and I had the good fortune to meet an RR Technician called Phil (second name escapes me) but he was part of the team of RR Controls Engineers during the Hot & High Trials. He said they used to modify the three \x93Amps\x94 for each Engine control \x96 Lane1, Lane 2 & Reheat on the fly and the aircraft often flew with different schedules installed on all four engines \x96 I think the aircraft at Duxford has these still fitted in the racks (??M2Dude??) but that\x92s another Tonka thing too; three control lanes. Were all these Amps combined into one black box?? They are always Amps in RR Speak?? The Spey 202 had \x93Amps\x94 in its reheat system too. I was lucky to find a job with the TVOC in 2001 until they ran out of money (as they do) and worked to have their flight worthy Olympus 20202\x92s tested at RR Ansty but left before that happened. In fact I don\x92t know if it did happen though it was a CAA requirement. While I was there we were working with Alan Rolfe & Mike Batchelor of the RR Historic Engine Department were offering support too. (593\x92s were their responsibility also !!! Historic !!!) but I think that was unofficial until there was an agreement about the costs. After that I worked in industrial applications of Olympus (and Avon) and worked on many installed Olympus in power generation but based on the 200 Series \x96 I think the 300 was thought to be too fragile. But I did have a good look at Olympus 2008/003 Still in good working order in Jersey on the Channel Islands with it\x92s Bristol Sidderly Name plate on it. They didn't have Inlet Guide Vanes as the 300's had but just 6 Forward Bearing Supports, hollow with anti -Icing air blown though, controlled by a Garret Air Valve. I never saw a DEBOW sort of function on the Industrials but there is a critical N1 speed which has to be avoided because the LP Turbine Disc can fail. The Trouble with that speed range is that it is right where the usefull power is produced!!! Was there any Normal Operating Range RPM's which had to be avoided on the 593 ? Again thanks very much for all the fascinating information here\x92s to another 42 pages!!
Sorry to have rambled on so much
Howie Subjects
Afterburner/Re-heat
Air France 4590
Intakes
LP Turbine
N1 (revolutions)
Olympus 593
Rolls Royce
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| M2dude
December 02, 2010, 11:33:00 GMT permalink Post: 6097205 |
howiehowie93
Welcome aboard and thank you for your kind words; I am so glad you enjoy our thread. You are in good company here also, many of the 'more mature' vintage Concorde people
(like me) are ex-RAF. (And some of the pilots were ex-RN also, but no one is perfect
... only joking guys).
It is a matter of pride/embarrassment for me that up to the end of 2003, I'd only ever really 'known' two aircraft; the C-130 and Concorde
.
I was really interested in some of the RB199/Olympus similarities; TBP was tried on the development aircraft for engine control TET calculation, but Rolls-Royce were unhappy with the performance and abandoned TBP in favour of indirectly computing TET as a function of T1 (intake TAT) and EGT (T7). (And this meant the removal of the four TBP amplifiers too... we had even more black boxes then. As for the three 'control amps' you were speaking of, I'm 99% sure that A/C 101, G-AXDN still does have the units you described fitted. The ECUs (or ECAs as they were sometimes called) were a highly complex analog control unit built by Ultra Electronics. They could be quite a headache sometimes in terms of reliability, but would generally perform flawlessly in terms of engine control. As with any analog box, control law changes in the field were not too straightforward and a soldering iron was the flight test engineers best friend here. The Reheat Amp was built by ELECMA (the electronics arm of SNECMA) and unlike some of the other components in the reheat system, was a beautifully designed and constructed unit. Very few reheat failures (and there were many) were attributed to the 'box' itself. The main fragility with the reheat system was the ignition system used (a 20 KV swirl ignitor, which you will see is covered previously in the thread). We (BA/RR) were seriously looking at one point of investigatng the use of 'hot streak' injection as a backup ignition source, which I believe was used in the 199 (?), but it unfortunately never happened. The Plessey DECU that was tried on A/C 202 (G-BBDG) DID combine main engine control and reheat, but unfortunately was never taken up for the production A/C, and so we were left withe the '3 AMPS' as you so eloquently describe. We had a total of THIRTY ONE control units associated with powerplant control on Concorde; might be a little different now methinks Thanks for some of the fascinating engine history snippets you shared with us, although purists might regard it as being 'off topic' I personally think this rather unique thread is all the better for your contribution here, I think it is great that you are working with industrial Olympuses, all part of the family tree. I will dig out the verboten sustained N1 speed band for the 593, it certainly WAS a fact though. Thanks from all of us for your contribution here Howie, keep on posting. Regards Dude
Subjects
Afterburner/Re-heat
G-AXDN
G-BBDG
Ignitors
Intakes
N1 (revolutions)
Olympus 593
Rolls Royce
TAT (Total Air Temperature)
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| M2dude
December 03, 2010, 12:19:00 GMT permalink Post: 6099643 |
howiehowie93
The whole idea of adapting hotstreak injection came from our Rolls-Royce rep', who spent many years on RB199 development. We'd even identified the position on the Olympus 593 for the injector itself; un unused start atomiser port, but as I reluctantly said before, it was not to be. Apart from ignition issues the other main problems were reheat instability and reheat 'coming in with a thump', this particular malady being generally confined to transonic acceleration and not take-off. The instability issue was caused by either an open circuit/high resistance fuel metering valve tacho (only rate feedback was used here) or more commonly contamination of the RFCU umbilical electrical connector. The connector itself was originally located high up the side of the engine, close to the combustion area, was barely accessable and was a total nightmare in terms of reliability. After a great deal of pressure from us (BA) SNECMA agreed to effectively relocate the connector at the bottom of the engine and the majority of our stability problems almost disapperared overnight. The 'reheat in with a thump issue was a real beaut'. For transonic acceleration a much lower ratio of Fr/Fe (reheat fuel flow/engine fuel flow) was used than for take-off. (0.45 as opposed to 0.78) and therefore the opening rate of the fuel metering valve required damping, this being achieved by using a metered orifice inside the RFCU that applied a small amount of servo fuel pressure to one side of the valve to achieve the damping. Trouble was, any contaminants in the reheat fuel system would progressively clog up the orifice and kill our daming stone dead; the end result being the FMV banging wide open and hence the 'thump'. The only remedy for this problem was to replace the RFCU. SNECMA, in a truly classic feat of engineering produced a filter across this orifice, in order to prevent it getting clogged. Anyone see a problem with this? Yep, the filter itself would clog up and we got our beloved thump back.
The only remedy for this problem was again to replace the
RFCU. The contaminants were often as a result of RFCU build issues; this issue was never truly resolved.
I checked and found the dodgy sustained N1 band for the Olympus 593, this was 88-91% N1. This figure was never an issue in service as at cruise ISA -7 and above conditions the N1 was always run at the flat rate limit of 101.5%. Below ISA -7 the intake system would progressively reduce N1 as a function of intake local Mach Number, falling to 97.4% at ISA -24. (The coldest cruise conditions I personally ever saw was ISA - 25 (that's -81.5 degrees C folks) between BAH and BKK. The controlled N1 at all other 'non cruise' phases was always in the upper 90's, well away from our blade resonance area. jodeliste and Alpine Flyer Thank you both for the TSR-2 information, it makes amazing reading (what a truly magnificent aircraft) , and as Concorde's military cousin, discussion here is in my opinion most waranted. Regards Dude
Subjects
Afterburner/Re-heat
British Airways
Intakes
N1 (revolutions)
Olympus 593
Rolls Royce
Transonic Acceleration
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| Bellerophon
December 03, 2010, 13:37:00 GMT permalink Post: 6099796 |
M2Dude
the dodgy sustained N1 band for the Olympus 593, this was 88-91% N1. This figure was never an issue in service as at cruise...the N1 was always run at the flat rate limit of 101.5%. Below ISA -7 the intake system would progressively reduce N1...falling to 97.4% at ISA -24
Deciding that they would like to maintain this groundspeed, they went ALT HOLD and MACH HOLD at around FL530. They maintained their groundspeed, so the story goes, but the autothrottle then progressively reduced the N1, as the aircraft weight reduced, over the next couple of hours, into the prohibited range! Did you ever hear of any such event? Best Regards Bellerophon Subjects
ALT HOLD
Auto-throttle
Intakes
N1 (revolutions)
Olympus 593
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| howiehowie93
December 05, 2010, 06:11:00 GMT permalink Post: 6103156 |
More Olympus stuff
Greetings.
Service Bulletin 0420 Industrial Olympus Gas Generator \x96 LP Turbine Disc Cracking Safety Related Operational and inspection requirements. to paraphrase: Avoid steady operations in the range 5450 to 5850 RPM I believe that 100% is 8000RPM so that equates to 68 \x96 73%. It is ok the accelerate through that range apparently. There seems to be a lot of history about Olympus LP Discs: Test House 40 \x96 I think - at RR Ansty still has the deep groves in the brickwork where an engine broke up during test. From Wikipedia: \x93XA894 flew with five Olympus engines, the standard four plus an underbelly supersonic Olympus 320 fed from a bifurcated intake starting just aft of the wing leading edge and inboard of the main intakes, in a mock-up of the BAC TSR-2 installation. This aircraft was destroyed on a fire on the ground on 3 December 1962\x94 I read the LP Disc did a QANTAS A380 and decided to leave the engine: An Aviation Heritage story So there\x92s nothing new in the world really
regards HH93 Last edited by howiehowie93; 5th December 2010 at 07:19 . Subjects
Intakes
LP Turbine
Rolls Royce
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| howiehowie93
December 05, 2010, 12:44:00 GMT permalink Post: 6103715 |
why was the Olympus so suitable
what was it about the Olympus that made it so capable in so many guises and for so long?
All these engines from other manufacturers have complicated systems to make them efficient: VIGV's (Variable Inlet Guide Vanes) VSV's (Variable Stator Vanes) Bleed Valves Multi Fuel Metering Valves & other valves to keep emissions under control. The Olympus - nowt ! Two Spools and a Fuel Valve thats your lot. nothing to go wrong and being an Aeroderivative all the ancillary equipment is either bolted on underneath or away from the engine outside the enclosure.
The only thing I had trouble with was the burner bolts shearing off, 1/4"BSF, if never touched in a good few years !
Was it all still BSF on the 593? That was a Bristols thing - true RR designs are UNC (well Avons are anyway) oh ! I forgot about the Hot Shot; when I was ground running installed RB199's there was no jump in TBT/T7, you couldn't sense it fire either, the only feel was either the Reheat lighting off with a big roar or the engine going quiet as the Nozzle opened up until the MECU noticed it hadn't lit and closed it again sharpish. Good eh Regards H
wie
Last edited by howiehowie93; 5th December 2010 at 13:25 . Reason: Hot Shot paragraph added. Also SPELLING !! see me after school. Subjects
Afterburner/Re-heat
Bleed Air
Intakes
Nozzles
Olympus 593
Rolls Royce
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| M2dude
December 08, 2010, 18:05:00 GMT permalink Post: 6110672 |
Landroger
Which brings me to my questionette - given that Bristol-Siddley created the original design when jet travel was still quite novel, what was it about the Olympus that made it so capable in so many guises and for so long? Not only Concorde of course, but TSR2, warships and fixed electrical generators.
howiehowie93
The Olympus - nowt ! Two Spools and a Fuel Valve thats your lot. nothing to go wrong and being an Aeroderivative all the ancillary equipment is either bolted on underneath or away from the engine outside the enclosure.
Was it all still BSF on the 593?
oh ! I forgot about the Hot Shot; when I was ground running installed RB199's there was no jump in TBT/T7, you couldn't sense it fire either, the only feel was either the Reheat lighting off with a big roar or the engine going quiet as the Nozzle opened up until the MECU noticed it hadn't lit and closed it again sharpish.
Tom355UK
How much would it cost, do you think, that IF EADS really wanted to, using a combination of all the knowhow gained through L'Oiseau Blanc and their current lineup could they produce a 'Concorde NG'? Most importantly, would there be a market for such a beast (at the right price)?
).
Jeepers Tom that is one hell of a question. Assuming there was a market for such a venture (personally not sure right now) I think you are looking at BILLIONS of $, and for this reason alone I think you'd find that a multi-national/continental effort would be required. There is little doubt that technology is not the major barrier here, but economics and political will. (Nice thought though, I do agree). As far as a powerplant goes, well the PW5000 is a really superb engine, although well down on the thrust requirement for an 'NG' SST. More likely I would have thought would be e development of the Olympus, there was/is still such an enormous amount of potential in this basic design. (But who knows, this is all pure speculation anyway). And have no fears about posting here Tom, most of us are quite happy to answer away (We've said before that there is no such thing as a stupid question; you are most welcome here DavvaP
Ok, so my question is - BA had to use an airframe as a test for the modifications. However, the choice of airframe seemed a strange one to me, BOAF - which I previously thought to be one of the youngest and best airframe they had (m2dude you explained that BOAF and BOAG weighed less than the previous models). So, why would BA use one of their best airframes, rather than use perhaps the most worn out of their fleet?
I am honoured to say that I was lucky enough to be onboard G-BOAF for that flight from LHR-BZZ and as far as I could tell, the liners had no impact whatsoever. One amusing
part of the flight was when we deliberately allowed tank 3 to run dry and see just what the indicated fuel quantity was as #3 engine flamed out (we were subsonic at this point of course). The gauge slowly crept down (in order for the tank to to run dry, the tank 7 & 8 transfer pumps were switched off) and we all watched in eager anticipation/dread....... as the counters reached zero weeeeeee... the engine flamed out. I am being completely honest here, the engine wound down EXACTLY at
ZERO
indicated contents).
Those 7 aircraft really did look magnificent I know, it was just sad as to the reason they were all lined up there. Mr.Vortex
I'm wonder that did Concorde has a neutal of stable stability? Did the elevon work out the same job to produce the stability like the elevator and stabilizer?
Also, I have read your post and wonder why when the temp fall below ISA-7, the AICU order the N1 to decrese?
And the final question. In the early concorde, does the pilot has ability to select the amount of afterburn thrust by rotate the area knob is that right? and why the airline remove it?
Best regards to all Dude
Subjects
AICU (Air Intake Control Computer)
Afterburner/Re-heat
Air France
British Airways
C of G
Elevons
G-BOAF
Intakes
N1 (revolutions)
Nozzles
Olympus 593
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| dixi188
December 11, 2010, 20:04:00 GMT permalink Post: 6116565 |
A certain CFI (I think) at BA flying club, High Wycombe, who was also F/O on concorde, showed me some photographs of an engine that had eaten a piece of intake ramp.
I think he said that the adjacent engine had surged and a piece of ramp went out the front and down the other engine. This resulted in a double engine failure mid atlantic. They landed in Shannon with very little fuel left. A double engine change ensued. Question, how fast was the ramp going if the A/C was at Mach 2? Subjects
British Airways
Engine Failure
Engine surge
Intakes
Shannon
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| ChristiaanJ
December 11, 2010, 20:59:00 GMT permalink Post: 6116631 |
A certain CFI (I think) at BA flying club, High Wycombe, who was also F/O on concorde, showed me some photographs of an engine that had eaten a piece of intake ramp.
I think he said that the adjacent engine had surged and a piece of ramp went out the front and down the other engine. This resulted in a double engine failure mid atlantic. They landed in Shannon with very little fuel left. First time that happened was on prototype 001 in the very early days, when an engine "spit out" the entire ramp (there's a photo in Trubshaw's book). The ramps and actuators were 'beefed up' considerably afterwards... I didn't know an in-service aircraft had suffered a similar mishap.
Question, how fast was the ramp going if the A/C was at Mach 2?
CJ PS I have no record of any of the British development aircraft ever having lost a ramp, notwithstanding the number of deliberate engine surges they went hrough. But then maybe I wasn't told....
Subjects
British Airways
Engine Failure
Engine surge
Intakes
Shannon
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| M2dude
December 11, 2010, 22:17:00 GMT permalink Post: 6116745 |
Hi Guys, quite a few little points here, so here's my angle(s):
Pedalz
were the intake ramps in front of the engines ever known for problems? Especially during supersonic cruise where the airflow through the compressors and position of the ramps was determined by an exacting science which could turn into quite a situation if disturbed.
Which hydraulic system actuated these ramps?
) to try and find the cause of the surge.
My friend EXWOK perfectly answered the intake hydraulics allocations.
Due to the shape of the leading edge and positioning of the intakes themselves, could it be possible that disturbed airflow from a problem ramp or donk could also effect it's outboard neighbour (if I'm right in presuming that only the inboard engine surging etc. could effect the outboard and not vice versa)?[/
You might want to take a look at 'When Intakes Go Wrong Part 1: http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/42690...-thrust-5.html and Parts 2 & 3: http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/42690...-thrust-5.html Not to mention Part 3: dixi188
A certain CFI (I think) at BA flying club, High Wycombe, who was also F/O on concorde, showed me some photographs of an engine that had eaten a piece of intake ramp. I think he said that the adjacent engine had surged and a piece of ramp went out the front and down the other engine. This resulted in a double engine failure mid atlantic. They landed in Shannon with very little fuel left.
ChristiaanJ
PS I have no record of any of the British development aircraft ever having lost a ramp, notwithstanding the number of deliberate engine surges they went hrough. But then maybe I wasn't told....
Due to the lateness of the hour (and me being up at 4
), that will have to do for now guys.
Best regards to all Dude
Last edited by M2dude; 12th December 2010 at 04:51 . Reason: Adding a bit and correcting another Subjects
British Airways
Engine Failure
Engine surge
G-BOAA
G-BOAF
Hydraulic
Intakes
JFK
LHR
Nozzles
Rotating (engine) Stall
Shannon
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| M2dude
December 12, 2010, 11:18:00 GMT permalink Post: 6117426 |
Howie the engine that you saw WAS the one removed from 001. Flight International said at the time 'Only an Olympus could swallow an intake ramp at Mach 1.9 and still run at 85% N2'
Best regards Dude
Subjects
Intakes
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| M2dude
December 12, 2010, 16:28:00 GMT permalink Post: 6117806 |
dixi188
This incident could well have been G-BOAD #2 engine then; this one swallowed an intake ramp brake assembly. Details of this incident itself can be found in the links that I posted regarding 'When Intakes Go Wrong' Regards Dude
.
Subjects
G-BOAD
Intakes
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| CliveL
December 19, 2010, 19:01:00 GMT permalink Post: 6131812 |
I haven't worked out how to reply to postings and quote the relevant remarks yet - cut and paste doesn't seem to work, sorry.
Anyway, after that 1980 engine fire incident we did find a couple of small holes in the centrewall and as a result we fitted some ceramic coated steel plates in the vulnerable areas. But as stated, the fire precautions built in did a good job. In this connection though it is worth saying that the cooling air passing over the engine comes from the ramp bleed in the intake and that it is controlled by 'secondary air doors' in the corners left between the circular engine and the square nacelle. These are there to stop air flowing back from the engine bay into the intake during takeoff and are opened once the pressure diferential between intake and engine bay is favourable. Part of the fire drill was to close these doors so the engine fire was deprived of oxygen, which helps a lot CliveL Subjects
Bleed Air
Intakes
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| Brian Abraham
December 20, 2010, 06:11:00 GMT permalink Post: 6132575 |
the limiting speed factor of the SR-71 was the wing leading edge temperature of 734 degrees
Thread on the Concorde inlets here http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/42690...ke-thrust.html Subjects
Intakes
SR-71
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| M2dude
December 21, 2010, 09:17:00 GMT permalink Post: 6135038 |
CliveL
First of all a hearty welcome from myself also to the thread, speaking as a fellow old Filtonian/Fairfordian. (I'm sure I must have bumped into you during my years at BAC Clive). It is thanks to the tremendous skill and dedication of 'designer chaps', such as yourself and ChristiaanJ, that Concorde became this breathtakingly amazing aeroplane that she was. I can't wait to read some more of your informative posts; you obviously have one hell of a story to tell, and can obviously teach us all (especially me) a thing or three.
Anyway, after that 1980 engine fire incident we did find a couple of small holes in the centrewall and as a result we fitted some ceramic coated steel plates in the vulnerable areas.
But as stated, the fire precautions built in did a good job. In this connection though it is worth saying that the cooling air passing over the engine comes from the ramp bleed in the intake and that it is controlled by 'secondary air doors' in the corners left between the circular engine and the square nacelle. These are there to stop air flowing back from the engine bay into the intake during takeoff and are opened once the pressure diferential between intake and engine bay is favourable. Part of the fire drill was to close these doors so the engine fire was deprived of oxygen, which helps a lot Best Regards Dude
Last edited by M2dude; 21st December 2010 at 09:37 . Subjects
Bleed Air
G-BOAF
Intakes
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