Posts about: "Round the Bay" [Posts: 10 Page: 1 of 1]¶

I have two recollections which I treasure. The first is of a sales demo ride for a VIP party I had to organise from Abu Dhabi on 29th August 1974; one by one we went to the flight deck to look around, which is when I first saw the gap by the F/E panel as the skin stretched. The flight took us overhead Dubai and then halfway to Bombay with a level turn at M2 and back along the outward track. The contrail was close by the RH side and gave a tremendous impression of what the speed really meant.

Some 13 or 14 years later I had the privilege of a jump seat ride from Exeter for the whole of one of the round-the-bay flights. We flew North to join the westbound route to the acceleration point at minimum separation behind the schedule Concorde to New York (or perhaps Washington?). The display as the other aircraft's nose lifted and the aircraft accelerated was awesome.

Then on landing, handflown by the FO (currency requirement?), we seemed to be heading for a touchdown halfway down the runway. It was truly terrifying to a simple PPL, and just as I was about to let out a strangled sob the mainwheels touched down precisely on the markers, well below and behind. Apart from the terror, what impressed me was that as far as I could see the FO was flying the aircraft exactly as you would a Tiger Moth; stick, throttle and rudder. I know that there was far more to it than that, but that's how it appeared.

What a gorgeous aircraft. My model, in its original Gulf Air colours as presented in 1974, flies in the ceiling of my office.

landlady ,

I've only been on a Concorde flight once, and since that was the last-but-one Air France "round-the-bay", it's fairly obvious the very special party atmosphere on that flight was not quite the same a on a regular flight.

But from what I've read from other "trip reports", even a regular Concorde flight was never quite like a flight on any other aircraft.

So, welcome, and if you have any CC stories to relate... yes, please !

CJ

PS -- Can you imagine anybody doing a "trip report" about the usual eight boring hours on a 777 flight from CDG to JFK ??
And I'm sure you've often have seen the "Concorde grin" during your flights ....

landlady ,

Don't forget it was you and your colleagues that made the Concorde experience so special just as much as the three guys in the front office, or the ground staff, or the engineers, or us wavers of slide rules.
So yes, the experience from your side is as much part of the "Concorde Story" as ours !

Your description of a typical regular flight is much as I imagined it.

Did you ever do any of the BA 'round-the-Bay' charters?

My only flight was one of the last Air France 'round-the-Bay' flights.
Total duration from take-off to touchdown was only about 1h 50min, yet even so the CC managed to serve us all the classic glass of champagne, a three-course meal that we barely had time to finish, and of course the little box with two choccies... Fauchon in our case.

And all this notwithstanding the steady flow of pax down the aisle, first to have their photo taken next to the Mach meter at M 2.03, and then again for the cockpit visits.

How they managed it I will never know....

CJ

M2dude
It was now quite a long time ago, but looking at my log book I see that the flight was about 1hour 35mins chock to chock, so the fuel load would have been quite light. At subsonic speed the cruise height was determined like all other aircarft, in that the lighter you were the higher you could fly, and at those sort of light weights it was possible for Concorde to fly up to a subsonic cruise height of 39,000ft. From there at light weights the supersonic accel could be much quicker than what would be experienced on an Atlantic crossing at heavy weights.

In fact the aircraft would probably be lighter than a round the bay trip where we always had a 100 passengers. One problem with accel just off North Carolina's coast was that there was a north south airway right in our path and there always seemed to be a B757 at 41000ft which delayed our accel until he had passed. A cunning plot I think

Now you might ask if we did not have 100 passengers, then how many did we have between IAD and MIA well it is a secret, but I have to say we were normally lighty loaded. However the trip was very popular with the crews as it gave us a feel of the sun's warmth, which is hard to come by in New York in the winter

I don't think you'll be finding hydrazine on a pax-carrying aircraft anytime soon! And it wasn't an APU as such, but a source of power for non-normals potentially found in the flight test programme. M2D and ChristiaanJwill know far more.

The charter flights were different insofar as they often went to non-BA stations, so there was a bit more donkeywork to be done to get all the paperwork organised, but nothing a regular charter pilot won't be used to. Generally one would get a fuel plan/flight plan filed from Ops at LHR, but apart from LHR/JFK/BGI/IAD (and presumably MIA/BAH/SIN in earlier days) we produced our own loadsheet. I only once had to produce a fuel plan/route plan from scratch and that was at Sondrestrom (as it was) with a dodgy fax line. You'd have to file a flight plan occasionally.

We carried a ' PR ' on most of them - a line pilot or FE - to carry out a running PA and do general liaison. They were volunteered to do the loadsheet.

The atmosphere on board was very different - these were pleasure flights and so were the opposite of the JFK business run. Landlady may be able to elaborate on this.

The round-the-worlds were just a big charter in this respect. As you note we carried a 'flying spanner', since Concorde-qualified LAEs are hard to come by downroute. It looked like a great job on paper, but they were often at the airport for many hours before or after the sectors carrying out routine maintenance or dealing with snags.

I enjoyed the charters a lot - everyone was geared up for a good time and in general the flight had something different for us, too: Whether a lightweight departure on a 'round-the-bay', squeezing into a short runway (e.g. Bournemouth), visiting SFJ or Rovaniemi, or setting off around the world, predominantly to non-BA destinations. My favourites, though, were the RTBs out of Filton - EVERYONE was either connected to Conc development or manufacture, or was related to someone who was. Fantastic atmosphere. Shame the runway wasn't a bit longer........

Any chance of you telling the tale?

We're looking forward to a few more people like you telling their story.

Peronally, I still remember vaguely there's a tale of the customers of a country pub somewhere in England actually chartering a Concorde for a "round-the-bay" flight, but I've never been able to find the full story.

CJ

Hi Christiaan and all,

A little bit of further digging on this trip has revealed ..

"Brian Calvert was a pilot on the very first commercial Concorde flight, and a regular at The Bell Inn. Ian Macaulay asked whether it would be possible to take a trip on it and Brian made it possible to arrange. As a result, on 19th September 1978 one hundred people paid \xa3100 each to make the first ever chartered flight in the supersonic airliner."

I wonder how many drinks it took them to convince Brian Calvert it would be a good idea

There is also a reference to Concorde in the Aldworth Millennium Tapestry that was made in 1999 showing. Aldworth Millennium Tapestry

I am very lucky to live only 30 miles from G-BOAC and have made several visits including doing the technical tours - although nothing like the detail that I have learnt from yourselves

In response to Christiaan's question about how the technical tours were done in comparision to F-BTSD at Le Bourget, unfortunatley it only looks like lighting power is supplied to the A/C - no hydraulics seem to be 'left intact' and working which is a huge shame.

For me it only shows that 'she' (or 'he' ) is a very special entity that did prove to be so much more than just a 'machine'. Even though she isn't flying, you still catch yourself standing in awe each time you see her. at first I wasn't sure about AC's new 'hangar', but apart from keeping her dry, I must admit it does add atmosphere to the occasion.

Cheers
Andy

Wow, what a great thread! I started reading it yesterday and am up to page 19 so far! I flew on the wonderful white bird once, in 1999, a Manchester - round the bay at Mach 2 - Paris flight in G-BOAD. And the wonderful thing was I did the entire flight, push back at Manchester to parking at Paris, in the jump seat! What a fabulous experience - thank you Roger!

Here's a picture I took as the aircraft turne left towards the French coast:



One memory is climbing through 50,000 feet over South Wales before turning down the Bristol Channel. It was glorious August day and I had a great view forward past the captain and particularly out of the left window. The speed over the ground at Mach 0.95 seemed noticably faster than a subsonic jet, and that view was breathtaking! The Bristol Channel was edged in golden yellow beaches, and I could see right across south west England to the English Channel. In my headset the controller called another aircraft; "Speedbird 123 if you look up now you will see you are about to be overflown by Concorde". I leaned towards my side window and there was Speedbird 123, a tiny scurrying beetle miles below us. From this height the fair-weather cu looked as if they were on the ground - like small white splodges from some celestial artist's paint brush.

We cruised at Mach 2 and 60,000' over the Bay for a while and the pax came forward to view the flightdeck. I was amazed how patient was the supernumery captain who was answering the same questions over and over again was (the flight crew were too busy to chat).

The approach to CDG looked far steeper than other airliner approaches I had witnessed from the flight deck; more like one of my glide approaches in the Chipmunk! But it wasn't, of course, as we were following the 3 degree glideslope. I guess it was an illusion brought about by the steep pitch angle.

I remember the captain resting his hands on the throttles as they shuttled back and forth under autothrottle control, the smooth touchdown, the 'landing' of the nosewheel followed by full forward stick, and thinking "we'll never make that turn off". Then on came the powerful reverse and the brakes, I was thrust foreward in my harness, the speed disappeared, and we made the turnoff easily!

Oh, and that stange bouncy ride in the flight deck on the ground as the long nose forward of the nosewheel flexed over every joint in the taxyway. So bad at times it was difficult to take a photograph!

What an experience!

I have a question which I hope hasn't been answered in the pages (20 to this one) that I've yet to read.

From an earlier post I understand that the anti-skid used a rotational reference from the unbraked nosewheels to compare to the rotation of the mains, and that with gear down in the air a substiute nose-wheel referance is supplied which, because the mains are not yet rotating, allows the anti-skid to keep the brakes off.

But what happens when the mains touch down with the nosewheels still high in the air? What (if anything) inhibits wheel braking until the nosewhels are on the ground (and therefore rotating)?

Also, this thread started with a question about the lack of an APU. When Concorde was parked could the aircon and cabin lighting be powered by external electrical power, or did the cabin aircon without engine power require an external 'aircon unit' to be connected? Or was aircon simply not available without at least one engine running?

And one for Landlady or any other CC. If a table top was set up between the cabins during service, how did the 'front' crew service the first 2 rows of the rear cabin?

Being 'up front' for my entire flight, I missed out on the cabin service. But superb though I'm sure that was, under the circumstances it's not something I regret!

Steve,

I don't have exact details, but I understand the Manchester, Birmingham, Cardiff and Belfast flights were supersonic "round the bay". The round the bay was essentially a trip out to 8w on the normal supersonic flight path, turning 70 miles around the tip of lands end, then decelerating back in down the English channel over Guernsey, where they then routed to the relevant airports.

Edinburgh was supersonic out over the north sea.

What an amazing thread, thank you for all the contributors....I've been reading through it for the last week as I pass about the half way point!

I'm just SLF with a huge interest and passion for Concorde and was lucky to bag a LHR-JFK flight in 2002 as an 18th birthday present. One of the contributors here in the left seat as it happens...At that time it was before the retirement announcement and I just assumed for my next NYC trip I'd be able to get onboard...

I grew up in North Hampshire and went to school in West Berkshire. My school was on a hill just west of Reading and our morning break would coincide with the BA001. I could sit outside the library that faced eastwards and watch the familiar shape materialize as it came from the Woodley NDB and went right overhead enroute to the Compton VOR. It never got old and caused much amusement when the Heathrow chaplain came to do a sermon one Sunday and was interrupted by the aircraft

Home was under the path of the inbound BA002/BA004 and would always listen for the distinctive sound and head to the garden...and if I happened to be in the area of Heathrow within 30mins or so of a Concorde arrival or departure my father would always suggest stopping by for a look. One of my very earliest memories was sitting high on the white fence by Avis on the North Perimeter Road and watching one land, this would have been late 1980s....

We had a Concorde captain in the neighbouring village that my parents were friendly with. In 1996 he took my Christopher Orlebar book to NYC for a roundtrip getting it signed by the crew in both directions and then gave me all the Jeppesens, flight paperwork and a whole host of passenger "items" that I treasured, and still do. That really sowed the seed for 12yr old me to *really* find a way to get onboard...(and those 250 tier points and 14,000 BA miles were the first entry on my Executive Club account as I couldn't join until I was 18! All downhill from there!)

Anyways, this Concorde captain was by all accounts a bit of a legend so I'm sure those of you insiders knew him. I recall one Sunday afternoon, this would have been late 1990s, I looked out the living room window and saw a BA Concorde at low level, banked streaking across the sky maybe a mile away, a quite incredible sight. It turned out that this local Captain was doing one of the round the bay charters and got ATC permission to do a little tour of North Hampshire. A couple of acquaintances from the village played tennis every Sunday at this specific time and had complained about aircraft noise to him. Well, what better way to piss them off than to do a low buzz of their tennis club... A year or so later he moved a little further south and opened up the village fete in similar fashion. He retired from BA after the 2000 grounding and the last I heard he was flying a large maroon business jet...that business jet being one of the Qatar Amiri 747SPs...

A question, finally! I now live fairly close to JFK and the 31L Canarsie departure is obviously extremely well known and one I've taken countless times in the "blunties". Given the noise abatement situation what happened if the weather didn't play ball? Were there other departure options? I've seen photos of arrivals on 13L, the Canarsie arrival and my own BA001 arrived on 4L. I assume therefore that arrivals were a lot less liberally governed,,,

Thanks in advance for your replies and I look forward to reading the other 1000 posts I haven't got around to!