Posts by user "Biggles78" [Posts: 16 Total up-votes: 0 Page: 1 of 1]¶

10,000kg in a trim tank? No, I am really not that stupid to think it was all used for trim but I am beginning to realise just how little I knew about this technological wonder of the skies. Also wish someone had recorded her being rolled (like the B707 when being displayed). Now that would be something that would stand along side the noise abatement takeoff or maybe not. The T/O is impressive!!

M2dude and ChristiaanJ, please keep posting any anecdotes that you remember about this incredible aeroplane. It really is fascinating learning about the technical side from those who actually knew her.

Damn, guess I am really that stupid. (Let's just keep that between you, Christiaan and myself ).

M2, the figures you give are incredible (I like stats) so I shall ask for more. Anytime you get tired of answering please just say enough .

How much fuel was used in the taxi. T/O roll. To TOC. Usage in cruise. From TOD?
How long did it take to get to TOC and was it done in one hit or were there stages when fuel burn allowed the climb to resume? What was the ground distance covered to get to TOC? How far out was TOD and what was ROD during the approach?

The amusing trim piece I found quite funny. That requirement must have been designed by several different Government committees; net result, nothing changes.

Had a question on the nose. You mentioned somewhere about a decompression when the nose was lowered to the 5\xb0 stage. This indicates that the nose had more than the Up and Down positions that I always thought. Were there multiple nose positions and when would they have been used. (Obviously nose full down was for T/O and Landing)

Last one for this post. What was the CoG range? I remember when I started flying and finally twigged to what it was all about that the PA28 had something like a 5" from the forward to aft limit and was massively surprised by the small "balance point". Trim tanks on 1 aeroplane I flew would have been most welcome.

I know I have asked a lot so please answer at your convenience.

Many thanks.

Mate, if you could have seen my jaw drop when I read the T/O burn you would probably hurt yourself laughing to much. That is just incredible but the cruise flow seems like stuff all especially considering the speed. The idle flow was also a bit of a jaw dropper.

Was surprised, yet again, that Mach 2 was achieved without reheat. They really were/are an amazing powerplant.

On my list of regrets, not getting a flight on Concorde would be in the top 5. If they hadn't grounded them what sort of life did the airframes have left in them?

First, I must apologise to Stilton for hi-jacking his thread. I had inadvertantly asked a question in the wrong thread and have only just realised it, so sorry Stilton. The good part of this is all this delicious Concorde info that were are privileged to be receiving from M2dude and ChristiaanJ is all in the one thread. Unless anyone has any objections maybe the Forum Moderator could merged the other 2 threads into this one.

Thank you for the CoG answer. 6 feet sounds like an awful lot but then I am only able to compare it to the littlies that I fly. The ability to use the trim tanks to only have to use a \xbd\xb0 of elevon must have made a substantial impact on performance and the resulting reduced fuel consumption. To think it was all computer controlled at the time when the PC didn't even exist.

M2, you have said that the fuel system was a work of elegance and the above desciption give me a small insight into this. I know that I am just going to have to find books written about this lady to find out more. I have been lazy when asking about item that I could Google but there was a method behind my laziness. When you and Christiaan share your knowledge there is always a personal anecdote or insight that will never be found in any books that I may be able to find. Gentlemen, for this THANKS seem so insufficient.

The TOC=TOD had me thinking and I believe insomnia may have assisted with some understanding (otherwise the stupid sign for me comes out again ). Gee I hope I have this even partly right. I assume that when accelerating to Mach 2, that it was done while climbing. I was initially stuck with the compression factor of Mach 1 and without thinking the same would happen at Mach 2 (A C Kermode was the hardest book I have read that I didn't understand ). Therefore with that in mind I was stuck trying to figure TOC=TOD. Am I right or even slightly so in thinking that cruise climb and cruise descent was the flight and there was minimal actual level cruise in the "pond" crossing?

I had also forgotten to take into account the speed factor, DUH!! Subsonic climbs, what 35 - 45 mins to FL4xx and then it is in level cruise for the next 6 hours before TOD. The lady took what, about 3.5 hours, and the extra 20,000 feet it had to climb and descend ate up or into any level cruise it had (or didn't have). Am I on the right track or am I making an ass out of me and me.

I was in the jump seat of a B767 on a trans Tasman crossing, CAVOK, when about 2,000 feet lower a dot followed by a straight white cloud approached and passed by. I found that impressive so the 2 supersonics passing at the speed of an SR71 must have been spectacular. Shame radar track isn't available on You Tube. Oh yes, did they boom you?

As you have said, fuel flow was reduced the higher you got. I think it was 5T per powerplant at FL500 down to 4.1T at FL600. Was there any figures for higher the Levels? I am curious to see how much less fuel would have been used at the higher FLs considering it was reduced by 900Kg/hr for just 10K feet. Very interesting what you said about when the temps were ISA+. I would never have thought such a small temperature change could have effected such a signifigant performance result. It also sounds odd, as you said, the faster you go the less fuel you use.

Last greedy question for this post. How much of the descent was carried out while supersonic and how did this affect the fuel flow?

I beg to differ Christiaan. I am certain your Concorde participation story would be of great interest to the aviation community. The project was a considerable undertaking and is made even moreso when you consider that almost 50 years after its' inception there has never been another aeroplane that has come within a mile (1,852mts) of having the performance of her; military included.

I would hate for all the little tit bits of this important part of aviation history be lost.

There is a thread in the Military Forum called Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WWII where we are privileged to share some the personal stories of the heroes involved in that war. It is critical for our future generations that these stories are known and the participants, their stories and contributions are not forgotten. While Concorde was not part of any military conflict it is still important that the personal side of this massive engineering feat is not lost.

The technical information that you and M2dude are providing is absolutely absorbing but equally so are the personal contributions. An example is the mention above of the Air France and British Airways Concordes passing each other. Anecdotes like that are unlikely to be in the Concorde history books and I am sure there are thousands of other pieces of information like that from both the ground and air that will eventually be lost for all time unless we can get it written down somewhere. Where better than here.

I feel like the fog is begining to clear and I am getting a slight understanding of how she flew. I was hung up with her flying at Mach speeds where as she was flown at an IAS (specific the the profile she was in). The Mach speed, especially when high, was a result of the temperature and not because she was f a s t ! The altitude flown was due to temperature and weight of the areoplane. This is true of all aeroplanes but due to the extreme environment this was more true of Concorde?

The subsonics have issues with Coffin Corner (I think I read that one Airbus model had somehting like 7kts between the high and low end of the envelope when up high); did Concorde have this "problem"?

I remember reading the BA Concorde flew with 2 Captain Pilots (and of course the most important Flight Engineer) and when I was watching The Rise and Fall of the Concorde , I was looking for the 4 bars in the RHS. Didn't see one but on the Air France Concorde the RHS pilot had 3 stripes. Was this correct or are my "little grey cells" confused?(sorry can't type a Belgium accent )

I don't know why this popped into my head but what was her glide ratio if all the engines stopped? Maybe because I remember from my early training being told the a B707 had a better glide ratio than the PA28-140 I was learning in. Now that was an eye opener at the time.

Sorry Bellerophon, a badly worded question from me but you gave a really good analogy. Gonna remember that even though I don't like my Flight Plans have collagen filled lips. I will see if I can reword it to make it comprehensible.

Thank you for the Instrument Panel image that I have now added to my collection. What is the Yellow Arc on the Mach metre that starts at about M1.12?
Do you remember if you had a signifigant headwind at that stage? I notice that the G/S is 1,139kts was this fairly standard for an East-West flight? (DUH me. Just read the fastest crossing was an east-west direction. Winds must have been quite favorable) I am now guessing the displayed G/S would be fairly typical, plus or minus a bit.
The Glide Ratio, even if it is a highly educated guess, is impressive. I would not have expected it to have been about the same as a B747. How many more times is this Lady going to surprise me with her performance.

Also notice the ball is slightly off to the left even though it is still inside the lines. Was this normal or does it need a tad more rudder trim? Can't imagine it is really out of balance.

Was that because of the tight fit on the flight deck or because we really don't like others in our workspace?

ChristiaanJ thanks for the CoG diagram. That I am still getting my head around. There is a large range at the bottom and top of the speed range but fairly narrow in the mid speed range. Seems like 165T was a less complex balancing act than it was at 105T.

The center rear fuselage gear unit, what was that for? I have seen it deployed on many occasions but I can't for the life of me remember if it was during T/O or LDG however it didn't seem to be extended every time the aeroplane flew. Was this used during loading so she didn't accidently "rotate" at the ramp or to avoid a tailstrike during LDG? I can't imagine an over rotate during T/O.

And a big Thank You to Bellerophon for sharing his knowledge with this thread.

EXWOK , more than happy to take a hint........PLEASE! and welcome to this gem of a thread.

With the FBW, was there any feedback built into the yoke? The Airbus with it's "joystick" has, I believe, no feel unlike a Flight Sim force feedback one.
If there was a yoke movement on one side did the other side mirror the movement or like the Airbus did the sidestick play dead?

M2 , it appears the tailwheel was, so far, the only "fault" in an otherwise extreme machine. Were there any other items like the tailwheel that were unworthy to be in her?

Does anyone have a tech drawing of the "sliding seals" used in the hydraulics. I have trouble visualising something that could withstand the 4,000psi pressure. Why was such a high pressure used? After all the control surfaces couldn't have required that much input to effect an authority movement. I understand it was also a special fluid that was used. Was this because of the pressure it was under or the temperature extremes?

That answered the question I was going to ask. Thanks for the explanation though.

Were the Braniff crews trained specificially for Concorde or were they supplied as part of the lease package and what were they thinking flying a supersonic machine along the USA subsonic route? Marketing exercise???

No, no, no, no, no! It is this info that makes this thread so special. We can Google to find out many of the tech specs but it is the personal recollections, anecdotes like this that are not known and must never be forgotten.

If it relates to Condorde then it IS on topic. Keep the titbits coming......please.

Landlady, you are yet another priceless asset to this thread. It may have been mentioned previously that much technical "stuff" about Her can be Googled but it is the personal stories that are added, make this thread so great and informative.

As said, your contributions will be most welcome as I am sure you have some excellent tales to tell about your adventures at Mach 2. So please post away and drag some of your colleagues in here as well.

1) How many fuel tanks werer there on Concorde? - Lots
2) How many seats were there? - 12, the rest were freight bays
3) At what approximate altitude and KNOTS EAS was Mach 2 achieved? - Very high and very fast but NOT very very fast
4) Only one BA Concorde had three different registrations, what was it? - The one that was made at Filton
5) What was the maximum permitted altitude in passenger service? - Feet, metres or FL?
6) How many wheels on the aircraft - Just enough
7) How many flying control modes were there? - Fast, very fast and very very fast
8) How many positions of nose droop were there? - With the STOP or without?
9) What was the first microprocessor application on the aircraft? - Pacman (wild guess)
10) How many main electrical sources were there? - Tomato and BBQ

So what do I win?

All due respect but this is the CONCORDE thread and it would be really nice if it could stay as such. If you wish to debate wing technology of other aeroplanes then please I would suggest a new thread be started on that subject. I daresay it would also make for an interesting discussion.
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LandLady said in a post many moons ago that there was a pool of some 240 "Concorde Ambassadors" (sorry but CC and FAs don't sound right for this aeroplane) for Her. What was the numbers of Captains, First Officers and the all important Flight Engineers (sucking up to M2 with that one )

Does anyone know how long did it take to fly from NZ (AKL if I remember correctly) to SYD (very early 90s I think). It is about the same distance at John O Groats to Lands End so I am guessing the 20 to 25 minute mark and how did the 2mt piece of rudder parting company with the fuselage at Mach 2.04 over the Tasman Sea affect or effect the handling characteristics? I remember the papers saying it was hardly a noticable event but I suspect the BA publicity department had a hand with that information.

I looked at the photos posted by a thoughtful member in an earlier post and wonder how former crew felt looking at them. The photos give the impression that you could kick the tyres and light the fires and they would be once again gracing the skies. Obviously they are unairworthy BUT the photos project a different image.

Final one for this post. If She was still flying, do you still think that BA (sorry but going to ignore AF on this one) would have sufficient patronage to keep Her as a going and profitable concern?

M2, he mentioned ........ HE MENTIONED IT!!

Christian, is this the video you are refering to? YouTube - PHY NYC Concorde breaks sound barrier (double bang)

Post #879 http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/42398...ml#post6129540 - Just guessing now, but Bellerophon were you a Concorde Pilot by any chance.

I read your vivid description and realised that I must have been peeling onions at the same time. Thank you for that sensational work of art, drawing us a picture of that take off while at the same time making it sound like it was no harder than taking a breath, though I have no doubts this was an extremely complex and demanding proceedure that required a level of crew synergy unknown of at that time. Again, my THANKS for that precious insight into your world.

This in no way excludes all the other contributors to one of the two best threads on this Forum. All you guys made and were part of a very special piece of history and now like the famous "Few" will never be forgotten partly as a result of this thread.

I do hope Landlady posts back with pieces that didn't make it into her book.

Oh you guys are so cruel.