Posts by user "M2dude" [Posts: 257 Total up-votes: 1 Page: 4 of 13]¶

TopBunk
Thanks very much for the info; totally blows my argument out of the water as far as a near V1 reject. (The Vr figure does not really matter so much; we aint going to be much braking there ).
I was repeating what we were told at the training school at Filton in the early '80s. OK, no 744s alive then but certainly 'Classics' around aplenty. (I'm sure the Classic's V1 figures are not going to be a mile away from the '400's). Perhaps more relevent is going to be the brake energy required for landing (average Concorde landing speed was around 160 KTS, how does that compare to the 744?).
Thank you again for the info TopBunk, and sorry for coming out with such bilge previously

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Braking  Filton  V1

Shaft109

Quote:

Were there ever any female pilots / FEs? Or did any women pilots ever fly Concorde?

The world has only ever had one Concorde female flight crew member, a really wonderful lady who is known as Barbara Harmer. Barbara was an SFO on the BA Concode fleet, joining us in 1993. You can read all about her here:
Barbara Harmer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After she eventually left the Concorde fleet, Barbara became Captain Harmer, flying the Boeing 777 for BA.

Oops ChristiaanJ, never knew about B\xe9atrice Valle, salutations to her also.

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Barbara Harmer  Boeing  British Airways  Captains  Female Pilots

landlady

Quote:

I was a stewardess on The Beautiful Bird for a few years, and I know first-hand the love that we all had for our beloved 'Connie'. I started my flying carreer with Freddie Laker in the early 70's, and was on the inaugral SkyTrain to JFK on July 4th 1976. I am still flying for BA,and over the years I have been honoured to fly with some amazing crew, and like others on here, I count myself truely lucky to have been part of the Concorde Family.

landlady you are so welcome here, I'm sure the great people reading and contributing to this wonderful thread would love to hear any anecdotes or recollections that you might have about your experiences on our wonderful aeroplane.
Again, I'm sure I speak for all our 'family' members when I say 'welcome landlady'

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Cabin Crew  JFK

Quote:

Not sure that the landing brake energy is more relevant, the RTO case must involve much more energy - a high speed, greater mass and less room to stop.

Agreed TopBunk, it's just as the Concorde and 744 V1s are so close it shows that the 744 has FAR more kinetic energy to dissipate in a near V1 RTO.
Many thanks for the landing speed info

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): V1

landlady, your recollections of JC are so typical of what most people that knew him had. He was an astonishing character, an extremely talented flyer with a wicked wit to match. I remember many years ago, while travelling as 'passenger' with him on a charter flight, I was in the rear cabin during taxi, when there was a minor problem on the flight deck. Over the PA came these dulcet tones 'OY, AC/DC (due to me having an avionics 'bent', this was John\x92s nickname for me), GET YOURSELF UP HERE NOW'. With my street cred' totally blown away, a (then) young and highly embarrassed me slunk his way up to the flight deck, trying not to look at the 100 or so faces looking at me in total mirth.
I think everyone that ever came into contact with John misses him enormously, like all of his friends I know I do.
Please keep posting landlady, your memories are priceless to us all.

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): John Cook

hmmm.. As far as the design goes the failure of a nose gear to downlock was extremely, EXTREMELY remote. There were three ways o lowering the nose leg (Normal, Stanby,as well as free-fall). As a matter of interest the main gear sort of had four ways, where the free fall could be assisted by bleeding engine P3 air into the equation also.
Being rearward lowering, the airstream of course helps matters a lot with respect to the nose leg lowering
One of the wing'd chappies I'm sure can come up with the flight procedure for such an event. (Never happened in the 35 years of Concorde flight testing and airline operation).

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Landing Gear

The Galleys

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The two galleys were a fairly cramped environment, and the forward galley in particular suffered by being an extremely hot place to work in. This heat came not from the ovens, Bev' makers or such, but kinetic heat from the area surrounding Door 1 Left. There was precious little air conditioning ducting in this area (no passengers sat there you see) and this door area really make one sweat a bit. Coupled to all this, because of the short flight time there was precious little time for the crews to achieve a full three course meal, including wine/Champagne sevice. Speaking for BA, these six crew worked their socks off at a truly astonishing pace, but sat in your airline seat, all you as a passenger ever saw was a truly superb cabin service from a truly professional group of people.
Oh, and the food was totally FIRST class, the wines even more so. (Hic! ).
So to any ex Concorde cabin crew reading this thread, a genuine and sincere 'well done guys', you did the fleet proud

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): British Airways  Cabin Crew  Galley

Hi again Stilton. We really need one of the flying folk to answer this one fully, I am not sure what drill there was for this scenario, but I'm sure there was one. The Concorde flying manual had a drill for everything, from a four engine flame out at Mach 2 to a blocked toilet (ok, maybe not the loo thing ), and one of my winged friends EXWOK, Bellerophon, SEO Brit312 would remember one.
As far as your point about moving the CG further aft; you never had oodles of fuel to play with , and I'm sure that the guys will mention about handling the aircraft on approach with the CG too far aft. (After landing four tonnes of fuel were transferred from Tanks 5 & 7 into the empty fwd Trim Tank 9, 'to aid ground stability'. ie, help stop the aircraft from trying to sit on it's rear end as the passengers got off).
As far as your visor query goes, well the visor is either up, or retracted into the nose. The nose itself (which I suspect is what you are really referring to) would already be at the fully down 12 1/2 degree setting for landing anyway.
Oh, and back to the ground stability issue, was Concorde ever sat on it's tail by accident? Oh yes, just once to my knowledge. In May 1977, aircraft G-BOAA was returned to Filton for some modifications that were required, and part of these 'mods' was some improvements to the main trim-transfer pipes connecting the three trim transfer tanks 9, 10 & 11, as well as the trim tanks 5 & 7. Now the flow into tank 11 (the rear tank) had to be checked, but there was insufficient fuel at the front of the aircraft for stability. This shortcoming was passed on to the BAe manager in charge of everything, who stuffily refused to listen, and INSISTED that these transfer checks were carried out, 'do as I tell you, I am the manager here'. The man's sole concession to any sort of common sense was to allow a BAe employee to sit on the flight deck 'and watch the CG indicator', what the point of this was, well your guess is as good as mine. The name of the guy sitting on the flight deck was... John Thomas. (Hilarious I know, but true). So in goes the fuel, and in a very short period of time, John Thomas notices that the roof of the Filton assembly hangar seems to be slowly getting closer, and closer, and BANG!! The aircraft nose is high into the roof section of the hangar, but fortunately because the hangar is so huge, the nose did not hit anything, it was just stuck up there, complete with a very worried/terrified John Thomas who is sitting terrified in the captain's seat, staring at the hangar roof. The rear of the aircraft however was not so lucky. The right hand inner elevon came down on top of a hydraulic rig, damaging the elevon badly, as well as FLATTENING the rig. The opened #3 engine bay door came down on some large access steps, tearing the corner of the door. (not much left of the steps either). The rear fuselage, in the area of the hydraulic tanks, was holed quite badly by some access staging, entire spectacle coming to a very 'grinding' halt.
So now we have this Concorde G-BOAA, due to be returned to BA the following day, sat down on top of a lot of equipment, it's nose high in the air with a terrified John Thomas requiring a change of underwear. (The brilliant manager of course was nowhere to be seen). The aircraft was eventually returned to it's rightful attitude by someone WITH some sense instructing Mr Thomas on how to slowly, a little at a time, pump the fuel from Tank 11 forward into Tank 9.
And was OAA returned to BA the following day? errr no. The best skin repair man that BAe had to offer was sent from Weybridge to sort out the holes in the rear fuselage (he did an amazing job) and the crunched bits of aeroplane were repaired or replaced. OAA flew back to Heathrow four short (??) days later.

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Air France 4590  British Airways  C of G  Captains  Elevons  Filton  G-BOAA  Hydraulic  LHR  Visor

Hi Steve, good question. You could not prime Alt ACQ directly from MAX CLIMB/MAX CRUISE, but I'm sure the guys would confirm that FL600 was nonetheless set in the AFCS altitude window. If you did come close to FL600, then you would get an altitude alert audio and visual warning anyway, but the crew would obviously know anyway. The guys will have to confirm this but I think that ALT HOLD would be selected at this point, and the autopilot would now constrain the altitude by varying pitch attitude. You would normally be flying in nice cold conditions for this to occur, hardly ever on the North Atlantic, but on the LHR-BGI sector it would occur as often as not. (As usual, apologies to my all flying pals if I'm talking rubbish again ).

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AFCS (Automtic Flight Control System)  ALT HOLD  Auto-pilot  LHR-BGI Route

BlueConcorde
A hearty welcome aboard here from me also. (Sounds like you are doing amazing work on the FS-X Concorde). Brit312 has given you a good idea of just how hard the F/E used to work on Concorde, and juggling the fuel system was always his pi\xe8ce de r\xe9sistance. (Might also explain why a beer or several at the end of a trip was absolutely essential). I'd certainly let Brit312 answer the balancing bit, and I'm afraid I've no info on the lateral moment arms of the tanks. (I did have a rummage).
As far as automating the system, I agree that it would be incredibly difficult even now, but with the technology around during the 1970's I would agree that it would say that it was just about impossible to do it with the same level of finesse as Brit312 and the guys..

Dude

Subjects: None

spfoster

Quote:

I never knew you couldn't prime ALT ACQ from MAX CLIMB / MAX CRUISE. I was thinking though that if you had ALT HOLD selected then the autopilot wouldn't be able to vary the pitch attitude and it would hold at the ALT HOLD level. Once there it wouldn't be able to use pitch to increase or decrease speed if necessary. I can see how the autothrottles could hold the speed back but if it were to get warmer then even at full power it may not be able to maintain speed at a fixed altitude.
I'm sure there is a simple answer which will leave us saying "oh yeah, how obvious, didn't think of that" Just strange it doesn't seem to be written anywhere.

Hi again Steve. At FL600 your aircraft is going to be relatively light, and your autopilot is set to ALT HOLD mode. As the aircraft continues to burn fuel it will 'try' and climb, but the ALT HOLD mode will of course slightly reduce pitch attitude to keep prevent the aircraft from climbing. The autothrottle in MACH HOLD mode can keep us from straying from Mach 2, large positive temperature shears were to my knowledge almost unheard of, and so any speed reduction was exceedingly unlikely. We really need a pilot's input here to further clarify the realities of LHR-BGI supersonic cruise; that's the way the AFCS was designed to do things however.

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): AFCS (Automtic Flight Control System)  ALT HOLD  Auto-pilot  Auto-throttle  Climb Performance  LHR-BGI Route  Temperature Shear

EXWOK's superb post above really characterises what Concorde was all about; An aircraft with 100 Champagne sipping passengers sitting in total comfort, the aircraft sat at Mach 2 - 2.02, 60,000' and wanting really to both climb and accelerate, but having to be restrained to prevent this and the engines poodling along and nothing approaching their maximum power. Seven cabin crew happily looking after their one hundred charges and three VERY lucky guys, sat at the front of this wonderful aircraft in shirtsleeve comfort and having really the best time of anyone aboard.
ANY fighter of the time would have to have been on full afterburner with the pilot in a sweaty flying suit and bone dome and only able to stay at anything like this speed for a VERY few minutes.
To EXWOK and the other guys (and gal ) I take my hat off, because you made it happen. Because of all you guys BA had 27 years of highly successful and TOTALLY SAFE Concorde operation. In the VERY few times that things did not go to plan, your skill and professionalism made the hairiest of moments seem like total routine.
And stilton my friend, we are in debt to you for starting this thread in the first place. Keep asking away and we'll all do our best to give you as straight an answer as possible; it's really fun for us too.

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Last edited by M2dude; 13th September 2010 at 11:26 .

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Afterburner/Re-heat  British Airways  Cabin Crew

Brit312
Speaking of the IAD-Miami sector, was there something 'different' about the subsonic cruise altitude out of Washington? I only ever flew on this sector once,(down the back) but I remember that we did a very rapid transonic acceleration after we crossed the North Carolina coast at Wilmington, from something like FL400, which was only a little above VLA. The air noise over the upper fuselage increased much more rapidely than usual, even charters.
It was an awful long time ago, and if I've screwed up here (again) I heartily apologies .
Regards and salutations..
Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Transonic Acceleration

Thanks a lot Brit312, at least my memory is not TOTAL garbage.

Quote:

However the trip was very popular with the crews as it gave us a feel of the sun's warmth, which is hard to come by in New York in the winter

mmmmm... yep New York CAN get a tad chilly in the winter
Regard Brit

Dude

Subjects: None

Brit312

Quote:

Now you might ask if we did not have 100 passengers, then how many did we have between IAD and MIA well it is a secret, but I have to say we were normally lighty loaded.

I remember; wouldn't it have been great if we'd had cabotage rights between IAD and MIA? The attraction of flying down in the winter from a very chilly Washington to Miami in less than one and a half hours would I'm sure been very attractive for our American friends.

Dude

Subjects: None

bio161

Quote:

- In June 1974 Air France pitted Concorde against the B747 in a direct race. The

Hi, I think that they are refereing to the French development aircraft 102 F-WTSA, I remember the event really well, the aircraft was even delayed on the ground in Paris while one of the 'passengers' (An American press reporter) went shopping in the terminal building. In spite of the delay Concorde still won the 'race' with ease.

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): F-WTSA

The blue area at the front is the MEPU firewall. My main memories of the MEPU on Concorde (Apart from the fact that it was always breaking down)was the awful STINK of the Hydrazine insode the tailcone. (Made your eyes water). Good photo though.

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Hydrazine  MEPU (Monogol Emergency Power Unit)  Tail Cone

BlueConcorde
As far as the MEPU went, yes there was just mainly empty space inside the tailcone, Aside from the tail wheel assembly there was just the power supply for the tail beacon as well as the fuel vent and jettison pipes. (On the forward bulkhead there were pumps and valves for tank 11). Having this great empty void did create problems in the early days of airline operation; there were some internal structural failures inside the tailcone (a low stressed area, so it was never serious). These failures were quickly attributed to acoustic fatigue inside the tailcone, due to resonance with engine and aerodynamic noise. This never occurred during any of the development flying; the prototypes and aircraft 1010 had a far smaller tailcone anyway, and aircraft 102, 201 and 202 had the bulk of the MEPU assembly complete with Hydrazine tank to fill up most of the void. The fix to the cracking problems was both very simple and quick to implement, and it never became a big deal. The MEPU, as has been mentioned a few times previous, was both useless and unsafe as far as a commercial aircraft goes; being replaced by a ram air turbine.
It's funny, but this is how this wonderful thread started over one month ago by stilton , I for one am so glad that it has both progressed and diversified the way that it has.
As far as charters go I'll leave it up to EXWOK or one of the other guys to answer, as far as flight planning goes. Thanks for your comments BlueConcorde, they always took a ground engineer on RTW charters, and although I never had the pleasure of directly participating in one (although I was on the end of a phone several times when problems occurred en-route)I WAS due to go in 2000, but tragic events in Paris caused that charter to be cancelled. I was however lucky enough to participate in various other charters, my most memorable one was in October 1991, when the World Bank chartered Concorde to Bangkok. The most amazing thing about RTW charters (or earth orbiters, as I would call them) was that the aircraft often returned to London with only a very small handfull of minor defects. The thing about Concorde was the more that she flew, the happier she was, and less likely to catch a cold.

PS. oops, EXWOK is already 'there'

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Fatigue  Fuel Vent System  Hydrazine  MEPU (Monogol Emergency Power Unit)  Tail Cone

Oh yes Roger, I do agree (and a point well made too). Concorde was very much a 1970's era electronics design (with even a little 1960s thrown in too). It was typical that as long as things were left alone and warm, they more or less were happy.
At Heathrow when the crew arrived to depart the aircraft, she was already fairly well tested and fired up, systems wise, even to the extent that the INSs were usually aligned (but not put into NAV mode). Now this all helped immensely as far as systems reliability went, but a last minute INS or ADC failure could often still occur, and hit you in the 'you know wheres' when you had least time. Such was the nature of the beast. (But we all loved her ).

Quote:

So, while Concorde clearly 'enjoyed' doing her job, did she respond to your obviously sympathetic synapses?

I hope so Roger, I think we all did our best.

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): ADC (Air Data Computer)  INS (Inertial Navigation System)  LHR

OMG that takes me back!!!!
Alan Radford and Wally Chapman at Fairford, it seems like a million years ago. I've never even seen this one before (and I thought I'd seen them all).
I FEEL OLD
A really great piece of nostalgia.

Dude

Subjects (links are to this post in the relevant subject page so that this post can be seen in context): Fairford