andihce
June 14, 2025, 13:40:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11901493

Quote:

Originally Posted by overstress

Where does that put the loss of thrust theory?

Above quote from article in today\x92s Daily Telegraph

(Current 777 Captain)

I watched the NYT video version of the survivor interview in hospital. He is speaking in an Indian language, with a caption in English. Assuming the translation is accurate, he says he "I could feel the engine thrust increasing to go up, but it crashed with speed into the building".

Note "feel", rather than "hear". Ordinarily you would first be aware of the sound of the engines spooling up, before you felt acceleration. Possibly he was subject to a somatogravic illusion as the plane accelerated downwards.

But if indeed the engines were spooling up, the question is, from what thrust level? They could have rolled back, and somehow were recovering. of their own accord or from pilot action.

All this is hanging on a pretty fine thread,

spornrad
June 28, 2025, 12:21:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11912467

NYT illustrated the story, drawing the same conclusions as this thread so far:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ash-cause.html

Quote:

The analysis suggests that the plane likely extended its wing flaps and slats before takeoff, used adequate runway distance, and took off from a typical point with a relatively normal initial ascent.

Within seconds of takeoff, however, the landing gear retraction process appears to have failed, and the plane’s emergency power generator was likely deployed....

“You don’t see any kind of indication of asymmetric thrust. You don’t see yawing, you don’t see rudder deflection, you don’t see smoke, or puffs of flame from either engine,” said Jeff Guzzetti, a former accident investigator for the Federal Aviation Administration. “That all adds up to me to be a symmetrical loss of power.”

Lonewolf_50
June 28, 2025, 22:49:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11912706

Quote:

Originally Posted by spornrad

NYT illustrated the story, drawing the same conclusions as this thread so far:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ash-cause.html

Maybe Jeff Guzzetti reads PPRuNe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innaflap

Not to mention the political pressure and Tata involvement

Yeah, that's a concern that one can do nothing about, but I recall Egypt Air 990 having that same sort of obstacle to the investigation (cultural/political). (No, I am not saying that the causes are the same). My point is that each nation's transparency varies, regardless of what ICAO calls for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdracer

There is absolutely nothing unusual about the 787 arrangement in this regard.

Unless one is on PPRuNe, a haven for the garden variety Boeing-basher. (Though at times B seem to bring it on themselves...)

From two threads I see this: a sudden loss of thrust was the initiating event after a successful take off - all of this other electronic stuff was a result of that.
What I will be paying close attention to is what information comes out as regards maintenance and ground handling for that particular hull...and what isn't said. (I guess that may be a while in coming - and I do agree in the general sense that giving the benefit of the doubt is a good position to take at this point in time).

helispotter
June 29, 2025, 08:54:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11912883

Quote:

Originally Posted by spornrad

NYT illustrated the story, drawing the same conclusions as this thread so far:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ash-cause.html

Article seemed quite objective and avoided speculation of the cause. But the audio they included of the airliner flying overhead with RAT deployed seemed to be from the older video of another 787 where RAT was confirmed out rather than from the actual Ahmedabad crash footage?

paulross
June 29, 2025, 14:23:00 GMT
permalink Post: 11913058

AI171 Thread by Subject

I have rebuilt the site that organises this thread by subject here: https://paulross.github.io/pprune-th...171/index.html

Main changes:

Brought up to date with this thread to 2025-06-29T13:48:00.
Having read the new posts I have a dded subjects such as "RIPS", "New York Times" etc.
Removed one subject out of respect. This was included because of my poor judgment.

Project is here: https://github.com/paulross/pprune-threads
Raise issues here https://github.com/paulross/pprune-threads/issues or PM me.

andihce June 14, 2025, 13:40:00 GMT permalink Post: 11901493	Quote: Originally Posted by overstress Where does that put the loss of thrust theory? Above quote from article in today\x92s Daily Telegraph (Current 777 Captain) I watched the NYT video version of the survivor interview in hospital. He is speaking in an Indian language, with a caption in English. Assuming the translation is accurate, he says he "I could feel the engine thrust increasing to go up, but it crashed with speed into the building". Note "feel", rather than "hear". Ordinarily you would first be aware of the sound of the engines spooling up, before you felt acceleration. Possibly he was subject to a somatogravic illusion as the plane accelerated downwards. But if indeed the engines were spooling up, the question is, from what thrust level? They could have rolled back, and somehow were recovering. of their own accord or from pilot action. All this is hanging on a pretty fine thread,
spornrad June 28, 2025, 12:21:00 GMT permalink Post: 11912467	NYT illustrated the story, drawing the same conclusions as this thread so far: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ash-cause.html Quote: The analysis suggests that the plane likely extended its wing flaps and slats before takeoff, used adequate runway distance, and took off from a typical point with a relatively normal initial ascent. Within seconds of takeoff, however, the landing gear retraction process appears to have failed, and the plane’s emergency power generator was likely deployed.... “You don’t see any kind of indication of asymmetric thrust. You don’t see yawing, you don’t see rudder deflection, you don’t see smoke, or puffs of flame from either engine,” said Jeff Guzzetti, a former accident investigator for the Federal Aviation Administration. “That all adds up to me to be a symmetrical loss of power.”
Lonewolf_50 June 28, 2025, 22:49:00 GMT permalink Post: 11912706	Quote: Originally Posted by spornrad NYT illustrated the story, drawing the same conclusions as this thread so far: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ash-cause.html Maybe Jeff Guzzetti reads PPRuNe. Quote: Originally Posted by Innaflap Not to mention the political pressure and Tata involvement Yeah, that's a concern that one can do nothing about, but I recall Egypt Air 990 having that same sort of obstacle to the investigation (cultural/political). (No, I am not saying that the causes are the same). My point is that each nation's transparency varies, regardless of what ICAO calls for. Quote: Originally Posted by tdracer There is absolutely nothing unusual about the 787 arrangement in this regard. Unless one is on PPRuNe, a haven for the garden variety Boeing-basher. (Though at times B seem to bring it on themselves...) From two threads I see this: a sudden loss of thrust was the initiating event after a successful take off - all of this other electronic stuff was a result of that. What I will be paying close attention to is what information comes out as regards maintenance and ground handling for that particular hull...and what isn't said. (I guess that may be a while in coming - and I do agree in the general sense that giving the benefit of the doubt is a good position to take at this point in time).
helispotter June 29, 2025, 08:54:00 GMT permalink Post: 11912883	Quote: Originally Posted by spornrad NYT illustrated the story, drawing the same conclusions as this thread so far: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ash-cause.html Article seemed quite objective and avoided speculation of the cause. But the audio they included of the airliner flying overhead with RAT deployed seemed to be from the older video of another 787 where RAT was confirmed out rather than from the actual Ahmedabad crash footage?
paulross June 29, 2025, 14:23:00 GMT permalink Post: 11913058	AI171 Thread by Subject I have rebuilt the site that organises this thread by subject here: https://paulross.github.io/pprune-th...171/index.html Main changes: Brought up to date with this thread to 2025-06-29T13:48:00. Having read the new posts I have a dded subjects such as "RIPS", "New York Times" etc. Removed one subject out of respect. This was included because of my poor judgment. Project is here: https://github.com/paulross/pprune-threads Raise issues here https://github.com/paulross/pprune-threads/issues or PM me.

Posts about: "New York Times" [Posts: 5 Pages: 1]