Posts by user "AirScotia" [Posts: 49 Total up-votes: 0 Pages: 3]

Originally Posted by V1... Ooops

There has been discussion recently about a procedure that involves moving the fuel switches to CUTOFF and then back to RUN following a dual engine failure.

Attached is an image of a page from the Air India 787 Training Manual that discusses this procedure.

I am submitting this without comment or opinion.

Originally Posted by za9ra22

All the supposed quote does, is tell you that the person asking the question didn't perform the action, thus presumed the other had.

There are many plausible explanations, not just the one or two you might choose to see in this scenario.

Originally Posted by MR8

No, that's an impossible scenario.
But you do have a point here. If the Flight Deck Door Surveillance system was inoperative, perhaps Air India has a procedure requiring someone to be in the flight deck to check the spy hole before opening the door? Just a thought.

Originally Posted by KSINGH

that would surely involve a safety directive at this stage though?

I had posted before (and it had been deleted for some reason) that is appears as if air india is taking a substantial hit on their widebody capacity at the moment and keeps cancelling routes right now (the latest being LGW), could they be doing specific extra maintenance/ checks having more insight than almost any other stakeholders at this point?

Originally Posted by Someone Somewhere

I suspect they thought that stating the switches had been replaced twice since the bulletin was published would dispel such concerns.

Originally Posted by paulross

On the site that I maintain that covers this thread here: https://paulross.github.io/pprune-th...171/index.html I removed the subject that described deliberate action on the part of the pilot(s) for reasons I explained here: Air India Ahmedabad accident 12th June 2025 Part 2

I would restore that subject if any hard evidence appears that suports that theory, not on the basis of speculation (and out of respect to the families and memories of the flight crew).

For those thinking along those lines could I offer this challenge: All the civil aviation pilot suicide cases that I have heard about have been achieved by a rapid descent from cruising altitude. It is a pretty sure outcome. But to switch off the fuel just after takeoff, would you really expect that to succeed? Supposing the other pilot noticed and corrected this in one or two seconds rather than ten, then you would have failed.

I'm not saying people intent on this behaviour are being rational but even by the laws of un-rationality it seems an unlikely way of trying to achieve your goal.

Originally Posted by Chernobyl

I think what you're actually referring to are known as intrusive thoughts , not suicidal ideation. The former are generally normal and experienced even by the most sane and rational individuals. The key point in the cited reference is this: "In reality, a thought\x97even a very scary thought\x97is not an impulse." I'm not aware of any evidence that suggests that people act out intrusive thoughts -- even accidentally.

Originally Posted by Chernobyl

I think what you're actually referring to are known as intrusive thoughts , not suicidal ideation. The former are generally normal and experienced even by the most sane and rational individuals. The key point in the cited reference is this: "In reality, a thought\x97even a very scary thought\x97is not an impulse." I'm not aware of any evidence that suggests that people act out intrusive thoughts -- even accidentally.

Originally Posted by andihce

Meaning no disrespect to pilots (indeed, quite the opposite), and admittedly I'm no psychologist, but it strikes me that to postulate that a pilot might cause the crash of a large aircraft because of suicidal thoughts is to seriously understate the action taken , because such action also means the likely death of all passengers and aircrew, presumably all or most of whom are perceived as innocent bystanders by the actor. Whatever term you want to apply to that action, it is far more and far worse than individual suicide, and I would think it needs a pretty substantial and convincing body of evidence, including psychological evidence, to explain.

I know such cases have happened (or may have happened, as in MH370), and perhaps cannot be excluded here with what we know at present, but I for one would be far more inclined to suspect something along the lines of the various "brain fart" possibilities that have been mentioned, absent further data.

Originally Posted by barrymung

.
A suicide attempt is very unlikely, because death in that situation is far from assured.

Originally Posted by Loose rivets

Having said the "Why have you" question was said in subservient manner, I'd implied it must have been the captain that cut the fuel. However, I'm profoundly puzzled by the fact that he would hardly leave his old dad alone since he was going to devote his life to him - and to do it in such horrific circumstances which his father might have fully comprehended.

While depressed people get lost in their thoughts, this would have been a total reversal of his caring nature. It's just another factor that just doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by 51bravo

For the action slip theory, while worth of considering, I have one question. That is that both switches are reported to be moved to CUTOFF at practically the same time, quote "within 0.1 seconds". You can not move those switches one after the other in 0.1 seonds (grip one, pull it, move it, let loose , grip the other one ...).

Question: is it an often encountered practice when arriving at the stand, to shut-down both engines simultaneously? The switch design seems to try to prevent simultaneous action. But we are humans, right?