Posts by user "za9ra22" [Posts: 31 Total up-votes: 70 Pages: 2]

Two minor points regarding competence and who gets the task of data extraction from the data recorders: Firstly, that it's the AAIB (India) which will decide where and when to hand over the data recorders, and secondly, the supposed comment attributed to the Ministry of Civil Aviation in the press release dated June 19 ( https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleaseP...x?PRID=2137718 ), that "t he decision regarding the location for decoding the flight recorders will be taken by the AAIB after due assessment of all technical, safety, and security considerations " would likely have been phrased rather differently if the lab in India were not considered capable of the work involved.

On edit:
And mods, apologies, this is getting rather more tangential to the incident than I intended!

Sorted by topic, this is from the thread wiki, to outline what has already been discussed:
https://paulross.github.io/pprune-th...171/index.html

(I think Weight on Wheels covers posts which outline the ground/air mode discussions so far).

A slightly less sensationalised version of the same conversation reported in The Sun (posted above), with Minister of State For Civil Aviation Murlidhar Mohol, though unsurprisingly it doesn't really tell us anything new.

The potential for sabotage is clearly a valid line of investigation in the absence - so far - of any clear evidence of more prosaic malfunction or errors, but I doubt it is anything more than one of dozens of lines of attention.

I don't see any direct confirmation that the flight recorder(s) have been read and their data determined, just that the AAIB have them in their custody, and they aren't going anywhere else.

To be honest, I don't see any detail in this reported conversation that tells me the Minister has any actual knowledge of the state of play in the investigation itself, just the process and a general round-up of what we basically already know.

My guess is that the investigation has not provided any feedback yet - or at least none that the Minister is able to pass on.

I think NDTV were indeed the origin of the conversation, and the report of it on their site posted by AAKEE is far more restrained and focussed than the other from The Sun which merely reports on it second-hand. But the conversation with him was obviously not only about the crash, since is also went into other civil aviation topics too.

What is interesting/informative (to me) is what he seems not to have said... which is anything you might normally hear from the investigation itself.

Nobody here could answer that, but since the authorities in India have said the recorders themselves are there and not going anywhere, I would guess that if any data has been downloaded and shared outside the country, it will be for specific analysis purposes - GE for example.

There's no credible reasons 'three former accident investigators' in the US would have any direct knowledge, and if any third party in the US has been provided access to data, it will have been on the basis that it is not shared. Even that I would doubt, since involved parties are far more likely to already be in India as part of the investigation.

On edit, and mindful of the Mods comments around the closing of the thread previously: I don't speak with any direct knowledge of accident investigations in India, only the UK - and even then with only one experience of civil aviation accident work. But I have been involved (in human factors as investigator and lead) in several UK incidents of scale, and have some familiarity with how these processes are constituted and work... there at least.

There's two points here: Firstly, whether anyone outside the investigation has any credible data they are able to disclose, and secondly, whether anyone outside the investigation can report with any knowledge, what the plans are for furthering the investigation. The answer to both is no. This will also go to the question previously posed as to whether politicians are likely to have been briefed.

One has to wonder why people might suggest otherwise, but the (probable) reality is that the authorities in India are doing what they think is needed in a situation where they know more than we do. If, for example, they are clearing the accident site after two weeks, they may think they have retrieved all the information from it that they can, and nobody else can really say otherwise.

As to reconstructing the wreckage, who knows (as yet), though my experience of a fire on board a fully fueled aircraft that has crashed on takeoff is that there may not be much to reconstruct. Certain parts, such as wings and the tail section for example, if in coherent condition, could be recovered and removed - and I seriously doubt anyone other than on the scene at the time, would be able to know.

All in all, the supposition that this is being done 'in haste' is nonsense. It suggests there's an attempt at a cover up of some kind, which is rather silly in a situation where an airliner crashes in a very public place, thousands witness it, it's filmed and put on TV, there are investigators from local authorities, the US and UK all present - all with different and contentious interests, plus the glare of media and others is on them. But 3 guys in the US on YouTube have uncovered the truth... Yeah, I doubt it.

OK, from my standpoint as a curious observer, what would their options be? They don't have engines to provide thrust, they don't have altitude to lower the nose and gain speed, and they don't have the speed to pull the nose up and extend the glide? All while trying to troubleshoot the same problem we've collectively taken 2 weeks to not understand. What would you do?

Yes, thanks. It reminds me of what a retired BAC test pilot once told me, that if you couldn't make it to where you were going, your instinct is to find where you can go that is the least hazardous.

I'll refrain from adding other thoughts since the thread has moved on since.

Posted yesterday, this is from NDTV who conducted the interview/conversation with the Minister himself.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/sabo...-mohol-8788920 Their own english language version seems most likely to be accurate to the actual conversation.

This was discussed previously, and it seems highly improbable that the Minister had anything much in the way of a briefing or insider knowledge of the state of the investigation or its findings.

What configuration, specifically?
Caused by what?
Didn't I read somewhere in the wiki, that the engines will continue to suck fuel?
Which is?
Contaminated with what, and how? And why were no other aircraft affected?
Which specific circumstances?

It isn't that your suppositions are necessarily bad ones, but that they seem a bit of a stretch. Of course I'm no expert, hence asking.